Examination of Witnesses (Questions 373
- 379)
TUESDAY 9 DECEMBER 2003
HH MICHAEL BRODRICK,
HH SHAUN LYONS,
DJ JEREMY COCHRANE
AND DJ MICHAEL
WALKER
Chairman: We have four judges in front
of us. We are very grateful for your time and for the opportunity
to hear your view, and we have looked at the documentation which
you have already submitted to the consultation.
Q373 Mr Cunningham: Do you support the
idea of a more formal careers structure for judges, allowing greater
mobility between the ranks and the possibility of an earlier appointment?
His Honour Judge Lyons: Perhaps
I could start on that with what I hope will not be thought to
be a legal answer—yes and no.
Q374 Peter Bottomley: Together or separately?
His Honour Judge Lyons: Yes, there
must be the ability to move up the ladder of judicial appointments
but in doing so it must be plain that there are not two ways of
doing it. If a district judge wishes to become a circuit judge,
he should apply and enter the same open competition as all other
candidates wishing to be a circuit judge: he will have, of course,
or she the inestimable benefit of already holding judicial office
and knowing those qualities required, but there should be no suggestion
that there is one route to the bench for outsiders and a different
route for those already inside.
Q375 Mr Cunningham: You have stated that
specialist judges draw their expertise from many years in practice.
Do you object to the idea of appointing senior judges at a younger
age?
His Honour Judge Lyons: No, not
at all. What is required for any appointment is the requisite
skill and experience coupled with the appropriate personal qualities.
We do not believe they are necessarily connected with age.
Q376 Mr Cunningham: Would you put an
age limit on it, in light of experience?
His Honour Judge Lyons: It depends
on the level of judiciary at which you are entering. What is perfectly
plain is that the requirements for years of call or practice at
the lower end of the judiciary, the district judges, is less than
it is at the higher tier so there is already a length of time
built in. I believe it fair to say that the age limits at the
lower tier of district judge have recently been removed so the
only requirement is the seven years" practice.
District Judge Walker: That is
right. They were removed about eighteen months ago so now a deputy
district judge has to have been in practice for seven years. That
is the only requirement, so that makes it theoretically possible
to become a deputy district judge in the early 30s and, indeed,
some now are 30/35 years of age.
Q377 Mr Cunningham: Do you think that,
given what you have said, specialist arrangements should be made
to ensure the quality of the judges?
District Judge Walker: All deputy
district judges are appointed on merit regardless of age so whether
they are 35 or 45 they are appointed because they are the right
people to be appointed.
Q378 Mr Cunningham: Do you still think
there is a role for headhunting candidates?
District Judge Cochrane: It depends
what you mean by "headhunting". If you mean by noticing
a practitioner who is doing well and suggesting to them they may
consider applying for an appointment, that I think is acceptable.
I am thinking at the lower levels—district judge, circuit
judge. Indeed, I think Michael Walker would agree with me. We
often have practitioners in front of us and we encourage them
to consider applying to become a deputy district judge. There
is a colleague of mine now, a full-time appointment, I suggested
he became a deputy and once he had sat I thought he was doing
well and suggested he applied for full-time appointment, but having
done that I kept well to one side when he applied.
His Honour Judge Brodrick: I would
entirely agree with that view of headhunting. I regard it as one
of my functions to act as a talent scout. I have been a judge
for sixteen years and I have done it throughout. I think that
male candidates have very little problem about putting themselves
forward—when you look at the list sometimes they rather
overestimate their judicial capabilities. Female candidates and
ethnic minority candidates do not come into that category, and
I think it is particularly important that we should be looking
out for the good quality candidates who need that little bit of
encouragement to put themselves forward because they are perhaps
judging themselves too severely. You have to do it very carefully
because you must not make promises that you cannot keep, but it
seems to me that you are perfectly entitled to have somebody in
to say, "Have you thought about becoming a recorder or deputy
district judge? I think you have the necessary qualities. If you
decide to apply, you can name me; I will give you a good reference".
Now, I do not think there is any harm in that; you must not go
beyond that; and I think one of the functions that the Commission
will have in due course is to try and formalise that procedure
and encourage judges to use it properly.
Q379 Chairman: Is there an even stronger
case for doing that in order to get highly specialised expertise—admiralty
or commercial—in courts which are major centres for export
earnings, if you like, that is, cases come to London because there
is a high level of expertise in these areas in our courts. Can
you maintain that without some process of seeking out from the
experienced practitioners in a highly specialised field people
to put on the bench?
His Honour Judge Brodrick: I suspect
the answer is that you will have to carry on doing that. I think
this is probably a little bit above our level.
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