Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100 - 109)

TUESDAY 20 JANUARY 2004

NATIONAL LOTTERY COMMISSION

  Q100  Alan Keen: Over what timescale were these decisions taken? Was it a matter of weeks or days?

  Ms Black: I cannot remember.

  Mr Harris: We did two pieces of work. One was a preliminary piece of work, which was carried out—and I am sorry but I simply cannot remember the exact timing—I think in the late spring. That piece of work was carried out relatively quickly over a period of a few weeks. Then there was a subsequent piece of work, which is the work quoted, which was carried out by Camelot over the summer. We reviewed it as it was being carried out. That work was completed late summer/early autumn. That was carried out over a period of about three months.

  Q101  Alan Keen: Do you know when it is due to start?

  Mr Harris: If the London bid is successful, then the IOC rules say it is 2005.

  Q102  Alan Keen: It does not start before then. It just says there is no contribution from the Lottery to the cost of the bid.

  Mr Harris: Yes.

  Q103  Rosemary McKenna: Alan Keen has asked most of what I was going to ask about the Olympic bid. May I ask about raising awareness of Lottery funds by the National Lottery Promotions Unit? I think that in local areas we are finding it quite difficult to get publicity, particularly for small grants, which I think is one of the best ways of raising awareness. What work is going on, or is any progress being made, to improve that?

  Ms Black: I agree with you entirely. I pass that to Mark because he is involved with the National Lottery Promotions Unit.

  Mr Harris: I cannot speak for the unit, but I am involved in some of the work it does. At the moment, I believe it is doing a range of detailed research to underpin and really work out what is meant by people feeling that they would like to know more about what happens in the community and what actually do people want to know; what aspirations they have; what views they have about the Lottery; and how might those views be addressed. They are doing a range of research to work out what it is that people want and how people can be helped to make that association most effectively. An early initiative is the "Blue Plaque Scheme", which Camelot has supported, and that is now being rolled out for past grants. My understanding is that it will become a norm for future grants. It cannot be imposed on past grants but there are many people that have received grants who are very happy to have a blue plaque. That is one part of it. The other part, which goes much more into the distribution areas and for which we are not responsible and I am less knowledgeable about, is working out how the distributors present themselves and how they work together to get over messages about the Lottery and to make the points that you were asking about, such as raising awareness in communities of what the Lottery is really supporting.

  Q104  Rosemary McKenna: I think there are two aspects to this: first of all, working with small groups to persuade them to apply for Lottery funding, or to help them to apply for Lottery funding. That is very important because, if they do not know how to do that, or if they fail at the first hurdle, a lot of them become disillusioned. I work with groups, and I am sure most MPs do this, to try to help them over that hurdle and make sure that they are funded. There is that aspect of it. There is also the aspect of celebration when they do achieve. I wonder if any of the organisations have looked at that so that there is celebration within the community and that people are aware that the Lottery money that they are spending is actually having an impact on the community.

  Mr Harris: Certainly part of the task of the National Lottery Promotion Unit is to work out how that best can be done and to work with distributors so that the distributors achieve higher standards on that. I know that is a much generalised answer. I am afraid I cannot give you the detail, although I believe you are seeing distributors later on. They will be able to tell you much more about it and much more about how they are working together through their own common groups as well to co-ordinate and present that.

  Q105  Mr Flook: We all know that there is a correlation between daft awards and how many people play the Lottery. Do you accept that is the case because everyone else seems to do so? Do you accept that is the case?

  Ms Black: Not necessarily I think is the answer to that. I am not sure how much research has been done into it.

  Q106  Mr Flook: I have seen some figures. Say the Daily Mail runs a campaign about a daft award for getting money to raise guinea pigs somewhere in South America, that has an immediate impact in the amount of money that people are then willing to pay over the counter in their local shop towards the Lottery.

  Ms Black: We accept that. I am not sure that all the research necessarily supports that, but accepting that—

  Q107  Mr Flook: It would stand to reason on anecdotal evidence. On that basis, why has it taken so long to try and create a nice, warm feeling about the Lottery at the local community level? You are in your tenth year. If your main duty after protecting the players is to maximise returns to good causes and that relates to the turnover, why has it taken 10 years before these blue plaques have started to arrive? It is only thanks to Camelot, it would appear to me, that the money has been made available for it.

  Ms Black: Yes, the Lottery has been running 10 years. We have only actually been running five, but, yes.

  Mr Harris: The problem we have is that all of that demonstrating where good cause money has gone is a function of the good causes themselves, the distributors, who need to be persuaded how best to promote the Lottery. Clearly, we have taken the view that there is a link between the use of Lottery money for good causes on the one hand and games on the other, in the sense certainly that if there is a lot of bad publicity around the Lottery, that affects people's views of the games as well and can provide them with an excuse to leave.

  Q108  Mr Flook: Ms Black, you said to me a few minutes ago that you did not think there was a correlation but Mr Harris does?

  Mr Harris: No, I am sorry. What I am saying is that there is a clear, logical argument that that is the case. What is much more difficult is to tease out detailed figures, and I have seen a variety of detailed figures quoted in the press about "this grant has had this effect". The variation that one gets on Lottery sales just naturally and then seeing whether one particular event has had a particular impact is very difficult to demonstrate in absolute terms. It is very difficult to say that it was definitely that event that had that effect and the effect was of this size. What we are saying is that we accept the argument that certainly the better Lottery good causes money is promoted, the more positive people feel about that then the more positive they are likely to feel about games. It does not mean they will play because people play essentially for their own motives, which are to win prizes, and particularly to win jackpot prizes in the big prize games. That is why they play. They are likely to play longer if they have a feeling that the good causes money is being used in a positive way. We very much support the work that is now being done by the Promotions Unit but it is not within our area of responsibility to make that take place. We do not have any power to say to anyone, "There shall be blue plaques".

  Q109  Mr Flook: I appreciate that. It seems odd, after so many years and when there have been negative stories, that it has taken quite a long time before the Promotions Unit has been properly up and running at a level at which my constituents would understand the correlation between playing the game and receiving funds into the community in Somerset.

  Mr Harris: I cannot comment because I do not have the responsibility and it is not an area that the National Lottery Commission has been directly involved in, but we are very pleased that the unit is now set up. We think that real benefits should flow from it.

  Chairman: Thank you very much.





 
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