Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100
- 109)
TUESDAY 20 JANUARY 2004
NATIONAL LOTTERY
COMMISSION
Q100 Alan Keen: Over what timescale
were these decisions taken? Was it a matter of weeks or days?
Ms Black: I cannot remember.
Mr Harris: We did two pieces of
work. One was a preliminary piece of work, which was carried outand
I am sorry but I simply cannot remember the exact timingI
think in the late spring. That piece of work was carried out relatively
quickly over a period of a few weeks. Then there was a subsequent
piece of work, which is the work quoted, which was carried out
by Camelot over the summer. We reviewed it as it was being carried
out. That work was completed late summer/early autumn. That was
carried out over a period of about three months.
Q101 Alan Keen: Do you know when
it is due to start?
Mr Harris: If the London bid is
successful, then the IOC rules say it is 2005.
Q102 Alan Keen: It does not start
before then. It just says there is no contribution from the Lottery
to the cost of the bid.
Mr Harris: Yes.
Q103 Rosemary McKenna: Alan Keen
has asked most of what I was going to ask about the Olympic bid.
May I ask about raising awareness of Lottery funds by the National
Lottery Promotions Unit? I think that in local areas we are finding
it quite difficult to get publicity, particularly for small grants,
which I think is one of the best ways of raising awareness. What
work is going on, or is any progress being made, to improve that?
Ms Black: I agree with you entirely.
I pass that to Mark because he is involved with the National Lottery
Promotions Unit.
Mr Harris: I cannot speak for
the unit, but I am involved in some of the work it does. At the
moment, I believe it is doing a range of detailed research to
underpin and really work out what is meant by people feeling that
they would like to know more about what happens in the community
and what actually do people want to know; what aspirations they
have; what views they have about the Lottery; and how might those
views be addressed. They are doing a range of research to work
out what it is that people want and how people can be helped to
make that association most effectively. An early initiative is
the "Blue Plaque Scheme", which Camelot has supported,
and that is now being rolled out for past grants. My understanding
is that it will become a norm for future grants. It cannot be
imposed on past grants but there are many people that have received
grants who are very happy to have a blue plaque. That is one part
of it. The other part, which goes much more into the distribution
areas and for which we are not responsible and I am less knowledgeable
about, is working out how the distributors present themselves
and how they work together to get over messages about the Lottery
and to make the points that you were asking about, such as raising
awareness in communities of what the Lottery is really supporting.
Q104 Rosemary McKenna: I think there
are two aspects to this: first of all, working with small groups
to persuade them to apply for Lottery funding, or to help them
to apply for Lottery funding. That is very important because,
if they do not know how to do that, or if they fail at the first
hurdle, a lot of them become disillusioned. I work with groups,
and I am sure most MPs do this, to try to help them over that
hurdle and make sure that they are funded. There is that aspect
of it. There is also the aspect of celebration when they do achieve.
I wonder if any of the organisations have looked at that so that
there is celebration within the community and that people are
aware that the Lottery money that they are spending is actually
having an impact on the community.
Mr Harris: Certainly part of the
task of the National Lottery Promotion Unit is to work out how
that best can be done and to work with distributors so that the
distributors achieve higher standards on that. I know that is
a much generalised answer. I am afraid I cannot give you the detail,
although I believe you are seeing distributors later on. They
will be able to tell you much more about it and much more about
how they are working together through their own common groups
as well to co-ordinate and present that.
Q105 Mr Flook: We all know that there
is a correlation between daft awards and how many people play
the Lottery. Do you accept that is the case because everyone else
seems to do so? Do you accept that is the case?
Ms Black: Not necessarily I think
is the answer to that. I am not sure how much research has been
done into it.
Q106 Mr Flook: I have seen some figures.
Say the Daily Mail runs a campaign about a daft award for
getting money to raise guinea pigs somewhere in South America,
that has an immediate impact in the amount of money that people
are then willing to pay over the counter in their local shop towards
the Lottery.
Ms Black: We accept that. I am
not sure that all the research necessarily supports that, but
accepting that
Q107 Mr Flook: It would stand to
reason on anecdotal evidence. On that basis, why has it taken
so long to try and create a nice, warm feeling about the Lottery
at the local community level? You are in your tenth year. If your
main duty after protecting the players is to maximise returns
to good causes and that relates to the turnover, why has it taken
10 years before these blue plaques have started to arrive? It
is only thanks to Camelot, it would appear to me, that the money
has been made available for it.
Ms Black: Yes, the Lottery has
been running 10 years. We have only actually been running five,
but, yes.
Mr Harris: The problem we have
is that all of that demonstrating where good cause money has gone
is a function of the good causes themselves, the distributors,
who need to be persuaded how best to promote the Lottery. Clearly,
we have taken the view that there is a link between the use of
Lottery money for good causes on the one hand and games on the
other, in the sense certainly that if there is a lot of bad publicity
around the Lottery, that affects people's views of the games as
well and can provide them with an excuse to leave.
Q108 Mr Flook: Ms Black, you said
to me a few minutes ago that you did not think there was a correlation
but Mr Harris does?
Mr Harris: No, I am sorry. What
I am saying is that there is a clear, logical argument that that
is the case. What is much more difficult is to tease out detailed
figures, and I have seen a variety of detailed figures quoted
in the press about "this grant has had this effect".
The variation that one gets on Lottery sales just naturally and
then seeing whether one particular event has had a particular
impact is very difficult to demonstrate in absolute terms. It
is very difficult to say that it was definitely that event
that had that effect and the effect was of this size. What
we are saying is that we accept the argument that certainly the
better Lottery good causes money is promoted, the more positive
people feel about that then the more positive they are likely
to feel about games. It does not mean they will play because people
play essentially for their own motives, which are to win prizes,
and particularly to win jackpot prizes in the big prize games.
That is why they play. They are likely to play longer if they
have a feeling that the good causes money is being used in a positive
way. We very much support the work that is now being done by the
Promotions Unit but it is not within our area of responsibility
to make that take place. We do not have any power to say to anyone,
"There shall be blue plaques".
Q109 Mr Flook: I appreciate that.
It seems odd, after so many years and when there have been negative
stories, that it has taken quite a long time before the Promotions
Unit has been properly up and running at a level at which my constituents
would understand the correlation between playing the game and
receiving funds into the community in Somerset.
Mr Harris: I cannot comment because
I do not have the responsibility and it is not an area that the
National Lottery Commission has been directly involved in, but
we are very pleased that the unit is now set up. We think that
real benefits should flow from it.
Chairman: Thank you very much.
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