Examination of Witnesses (Questions 20-29)
Mr Donald Emslie, Mr Sandy Ross, and Mr Derrick Thomson.
Mr J McVay, Mr Malcolm Brinkworth, and Ms Eileen Gallagher, examined.
Q20 Chris Bryant: I just wonder whether
you think with the changes that are happening to the ITV this
is going to lead to not only a change in the way production happens
but the percentage of features and drama changing and coming from
independents rather than just news programming?
Mr Emslie: In keeping with many
of our obligations as regional licensees, ITV has many obligations
as a network broadcaster. We have quotas for production in the
regions; quotas for production outside the M25; quotas for original
production; and, more importantly, we have what is called "table
one hours" which is very clear and precise in the generation
of the network schedule. We have quotas for how many repeats are
allowed; what is our acquisition volume in the overall schedule.
Actually it results in the focus of ITV schedule being original
production, and that is very important. The reason that ITV is
the market leader in terms of audience, and effectively drives
the market-leading share of advertising, is because it has traditionally
invested in original production, particularly drama at nine o'clock;
and there is an absolute commitment from ITV to continue that.
Q21 Chris Bryant: There is a lot of nervousness
amongst audiences about whether that is really going to survive.
People want to see programming that reflects their own communities,
their own environments and the buildings and streets they know
in their own communities and regions. That seems to be the strongest
thing that people are nervous about, that that will not happen
and in the future you will see Britain on television, and you
might see the north-east or the south-west on television on news
or things like that, but not from documentaries, not in features
and not in drama?
Mr Emslie: Underneath the Act
each licence output is protected. For example, the Scottish licence
has to make 12 hours a week, and the Grampian licence has to make
seven hours a week. On average, across England and Wales, it is
about 8Ö hours a week they have to make and not all of that
is taken up by news. There is a significant output for other programming
which is non-news related, and that is contained within each licence
and within each area.
Q22 Chris Bryant: I understand that,
but when you start talking about figures and statistics and meeting
quotas that is when my heart sinks. I think what audiences are
probably looking for is more of a deep and ongoing commitment,
and not just producing Emmerdale and Coronation Street,
but really creating an imaginative future for regional drama.
Features is an area people are even more nervous about, because
with drama if you have got a big name you can get a lot of publicity
for it, but features are the bread and butter.
Ms Gallagher: That is what we
are talking about in terms of the obligation from Ofcom to look
to enact the words when it says "as a proportion of expenditure
outside the M25", that is the clause we need specified because
absolutely we need dramas, features, comedies and all the high
costumes coming from across the UK. That is why we are working
with Ofcom to get the definition of how you define a regional
production, which means talent, actors as well as expenditure,
and that is for the network. You are quite right, there is a lot
of confusion between a regional programme for the region and a
network programme made in the regions. What you are talking about
is the latter. I agree with you, for democracy and enjoyment of
the audience it is very important that you get a genuine regional
production across all the genres. I like seeing Scottish drama
because it is from Scotland, and I like watching it in London.
This is where these definitions are critical. What we are saying
in terms of a specific point today is that we would like this
Committee to be looking at Ofcom to define exactly what it means
by a suitable proportion of expenditure. I know it is a quota
and you do not like quotas, but without quotas I think there is
an inevitable London centric and drag of talent towards London,
and I think it has to be enacted.
Mr McVay: This is actually an
opportunity, because this is the first time we have had the same
rules apply to all broadcasters in one bit of legislation. I think
it is a real opportunity for Ofcom and the industry to really
encourage and celebrate the different regionalities of the UK
and actually reflect that in our broadcasting ecology.
Mr Emslie: ITV currently makes
8,000 hours of regional broadcasting more than any other broadcaster.
Forty per cent of the network schedule comes from the regions.
Regionality is in ITV's blood; that is how it has grown up over
the last 50 years. I do not see that this merger is going to take
that attitude out of the production communities of ITV.
Q23 Chris Bryant: That is now, but I
think many people's nervousness is about the future and whether
we hold that great strength.
Mr Emslie: It actually comes back
to the sustainability of the production industries. One of the
other things we have been arguing for is within the system that
a small broadcaster, like ourselves, without any influence should
become an independent broadcaster, an independent producer, which
can help sustain a production community in Scotland.
Q24 Ms Shipley: Given your answer, just
so that we are absolutely clear that all your stuff is regional
stuff, what exactly is a genuinely regional programme? You gave
percentages that you are producing genuinely regional programmes,
so tell me, define it.
Mr Emslie: If you look at it from
our output from our licence regional licence perspective, Scottish
estimate 12 hours of licence programme in a week.
Q25 Ms Shipley: What I want to know is
what the content is of a genuinely regional programme?
Mr Emslie: It is a programme that
is made in the region by our own resources, by our own people
that are based in the region, either people that work for us or
an independent producer based in the region. It is a programme
that would be of interest and of relevance to the regional audiences.
Q26 Ms Shipley: Would you disagree with
that?
Ms Gallagher: No, I think the
confusion always happens between a regional programme made for
the region, made for the local population, and, on the other hand,
a programme that is made in the region for the network. For instance,
where the definition comes into it, I would agree entirely with
Donald on the definition of a regional programme, but where we
get into definitional issues is if a drama is shot in Glasgow
but edited and all the talent comes from London. Is that a regional
drama? In the past there was a lot of trickery going on. A broadcaster
can say to an independent producer, "If you set up an office
in Manchester, but you are shooting it all in London, we will
call that a regional programme". What we have tried very
hard to do in the past is to work with the regulators of Ofcom
to stop these abuses. Having said that, I think ITV is the least
channel to abuse these rules.
Q27 Ms Shipley: I would like to know
whether you think lifestyle programmes are regional programmes?
Ms Gallagher: Depending upon the
definition of regional programmes. If you are talking about a
regional programme for a regional audience, I remember arguing
with ITC when they said my series Scottish Women (when
I was a broadcaster) could not discuss abortion because that was
not a Scottish issue. I think you can get into some really silly
instances about regional definition. To be quite simple about
it, if you have 100 Scottish women debating something of interest
that is a regional programme.
Q28 Ms Shipley: I have picked up from
many of you things such as the spend is important, the talent
is important and things like that. I think most viewers consider
a regional programme one which has a regional identity, not instead
of what you have just said.
Mr Brinkworth: There are two issues:
there are the regional programmes made for the regional schedule—and
I think it is critically important that has a local voice that
is talking to that regional audience—
Q29 Ms Shipley: So regional identity?
Mr Brinkworth: Yes, regional identity.
It is critically important that the 2Ö hours that is normally
reserved in the ITV licences or non-news programming genuinely
reflects the diversity and plurality of each individual region.
I think that is critical. That is the local identity. I think
there is a second issue, which lies behind the other question
you were talking about, about regional definitions, which Mr Bryant
was talking about, over the issue of network productions from
a regional voice and I think they are different issues.
Ms Shipley: Yes, they are.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed.
| 
