Examination of Witnesses (Questions 331-339)
4 MAY 2004
Ms Guinevere Batten, Mr Giles B Long, and Mr Adam
Pengilly
Chairman: Good morning. Thank you very
much for coming. We are sorry to keep you waiting, but you were
there; it may be you were interested in what they had to tell
us. Derek Wyatt.
Q331 Derek Wyatt: Can we start by congratulating
you all on your successes over the last couple of Olympics. Terribly
impressive. Can you tell us how often drugs is brought up as an
issue at the Athletes Commission, how often that in itself meets
and how many members it has, and so on?
Ms Batten: We tend to meet as
a big group once a year. We came into existence as the British
Athletes Commission in November of this year, prior to that we
were the British Olympic Association Athletes Commission. I would
say that doping, or doping issues, probably arose at most of our
meetings and we very regularly had representatives from UK Sport
talking to us about the WADA code and the education processes.
So it was probably one of the top three topics that came up in
the Commission.
Q332 Derek Wyatt: Just to clarify, how
many people from each sport get on to the Commission. Is it one
person or two people?
Ms Batten: The regulations that
we have is that each sport is able to have two representatives
but they only have one vote. The actual Council sits. Each Olympic
and Paralympic sport is a world class sport as designated by our
Sports Councils. They are entitled to bring individuals to that.
It is quite a loose arrangement. It very much depends upon the
athletes and representative bodies within the sports, and in some
sports that is at the very early stages of development.
Q333 Derek Wyatt: One problem, looking
at the Athens games, is clearly how many American athletes seem
to be associated with one particular coach who seems to have had
anyway a legacy of enhancement drugs. In America there is a very
different attitude towards drugs. If you look at the average baseball
player, the average football player, you cannot as a line-end
or as a defender in American football not be taking enhancement
drugs. It is simply impossible to go from that bulk at age 15
or 16. So it is a very different culture in America with professional
sports which, I think, tips over into its so-called other sports,
because it plays sports no-one else plays largely. Is it a concern
to you that coming to the Athens games there may be more athletes
from America that are what are called "dirty" than are
"clean"? Will it ultimately lead, do you think, to a
boycott of athletes, or rowers, or people saying, "We have
had enough of this. Either come clean or we do not want to compete
against you"?
Ms Batten: I think the Athletes
Commission, the British Athletes Commission, from their replies,
from the questionnaires that were given to the returning athletes
from Sydney, there was a very strong message about how we, as
athletes, want Britain to take a very strong stance on anti-doping.
Q334 Derek Wyatt: Have either of you
got a view?
Mr Long: In my experience America
has been just as clean as everyone else, to be honest. In Paralympic
sport we really do not have the same kind of depth of drug problems
that our able-bodied counterparts experience. Partly, I think,
perhaps because there is not as much money in it and it is still
very green, Paralympic sport, in terms of an international stage;
it is really only ever broadcast or televised once every four
years, and America is still far behind the rest of the world,
so we do not really have any experience with the problem that
you suggest.
Mr Pengilly: From a winter sports
point of view, and Olympic sports I am talking about particularly,
you saw the American Anti-Doping Agency have taken generally quite
a strong stance. There is an incident of a one chap, Pavle Jovanovic,
a bobsleigher, having tested positive for nandrolone about two
months before the Salt Lake Olympics, and he has had a two-year
ban and obviously missed out. He was their top brake-man. For
half the season they had been winning all the races, they were
on the home track, and that basically stopped them winning. A
lot of people in the know believe that that stopped them winning
a gold medal in the men's bobsleigh events.
Q335 Derek Wyatt: Would you wish that
not just the athlete concerned, but also his coach and also his
body, if it is athletics or basketball, was also banned for two
years? We have had this problem now for 30/40 years in the Olympics.
It generally comes up in the Olympics because it is on world-wide
television. Do you think we have pussy-footed around for too long
over this issue?
Ms Batten: I think it is a very,
very hard issue to follow. If we went down the avenue that you
want, what would happen if the athlete had taken the banned drug
of their own initiative and without the pressure or input coming
from their drug or their support staff? Each case is very, very
different. I am not saying one way or the other would be the right
way, but I am just saying there are many, many examples of perhaps
the coach not being involved in that situation.
Mr Long: I think it is very easy
to put forward a simple solution to a very complex problem.
Q336 Derek Wyatt: But nothing has changed
over 30 years?
Mr Long: True, but does that mean
that the innocent athlete should be barred from competing because
someone else in their sport has got their sport thrown out of
the Olympics?
Mr Pengilly: I used to coach at
national level and, as a coach working closely on a daily basis
and being good friends with as well as coaching this national
team, I would not have known one way or the other what they were
putting into their bodies, and I do not think it is fair or right
to hold a coach or a national governing body directly responsible.
You are always going to get some bad eggs. I think that is unfortunately
the way it is.
Q337 Chris Bryant: The question of medicinal
drugs and performance enhancing drugs we have raised a few times
on the Committee: the Night Nurse question, I guess. Is this more
of an issue for Paralympic athletes?
Mr Long: It can be. I do know
of some athletes, certainly in the more severely disabled categories
who require some heavy duty drugs, obviously I cannot tell you
what they are because I do not know, but there is dispensation
for that.
Q338 Chris Bryant: When you say "dispensation",
do you mean that within the Paralympic Association there is a—
Mr Long: A waiver, say if you
are an epileptic and you have controlling drugs for that which
may cross legality boundaries.
Q339 Chris Bryant: What do you mean "cross
legality boundaries"?
Mr Long: Within what is banned,
what is not within the WADA code or the IPC code.
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