Examination of Witnesses (Questions 880
- 886)
MONDAY 1 DECEMBER 2003
MISS HILDA
CLARKE, REVEREND
JEREMY HURST
AND MS
JULIA SHEPARD
Q880 Chairman: As Chairman I have
one privilege, I get to ask the last question. It has been really
interesting coming to Slough, it is a lovely place, the weather
has not been that good, but for many of us who are not representative
of a selective system it is like coming into a bubble, here are
you, you are a selective system—we more or less got the
feeling in the informal meeting that some people do not like it
very much, but you do not see the option of changing it, you are
going to live with it and work within it as well as you can—if
you were the Secretary of State or you had a magic wand what changes
would you make, if anything?
Revd Hurst: I do not know how
helpful the question is because we are not there, that tells you
more about the person who is answering the question, I think,
than anything else.
Q881 Chairman: Pretend you are on
Question Time.
Revd Hurst: I think that as it
is at the moment there is a built-in inequality which the system
contains and therefore I hope in the long-term the system will
be changed and I hope it will be changed to the extent that the
prestige of the present non-selective schools will match that
of grammar schools.
Q882 Chairman: That is a pretty good
answer to my question.
Ms Shepard: I would make community
schools in the broadest sense the heart of local areas. I am thinking
of some of the schemes that are coming to the extended schools.
I would have to say I would divert funding to areas of significant
disadvantage. Frankly, if we do not there is a penalty that we
will all pay in the future if areas of disadvantage do not have
more money invested in them, in lots of different ways in terms
of opportunity, in terms of environment and in terms of challenge.
I have to say that for staff who work in challenging circumstances
I would wish to pay those more and I would wish to attract the
best staff. I would even go as far as saying that for people to
be promoted into senior positions in education they should have
to spend some time in challenging circumstances, to recognise
the full range of educational needs of the country. I would look
at more ways of empowering our young people through systems like
schools councils and local councils and give them some power over
some decision-making, some of the things that we are doing in
the schools, but I may formulise a little bit more. The more that
young people take responsibility for their education, for their
schools and for their communities the more richness and improvement
we will see across society.
Q883 Chairman: Would you like to
able to go back to a system like the Greenwich judgment which
created this ability to move so far and community schools became
very difficult?
Ms Shepard: What I would not like
to do is go back to where we were, we are not in a standstill
situation. I would like to keep the benefits that have emerged
from our current system. We have spoken about the partnership
in Slough. It is the first time I have worked in a selective system
and there is learning to be had across the town from all parts
of the selective system, I would not want to lose that. For me
a sense of community, belonging, somewhere to contribute, somewhere
to be nurtured, somewhere to be challenged and somewhere you enjoy
being is fundamentally part of life in this country and I think
the way that we have dismantled some of our community is detrimental.
I think we do pay the cost in terms of people's mental health
and in terms of crime and disorder. I think we are paying that
cost now in society.
Q884 Chairman: Thank you.
Miss Clarke: Last point, apart
from saying Julia would make a very good Secretary of State for
Education—
Q885 Chairman: I was having the same
thought.
Miss Clarke: —I would follow
her lead and guide. I think selection has to be blamed for lots
of the ills that can be dealt with in other ways, it is one aspect
of a devised education system that we have. As education secretary
I would like, whatever it is, to talk with my other colleagues
and say, "let us look at the investment in education",
it is not just about schooling, I think it is about the community,
wider than just the people who live round that school. Although
in our school we are firm believers of that and we do have a community
programme and that is one that we want to adopt, it is about enriching
the school community in their own right and to do that with resource
and with support teachers and the whole value of education that
takes it beyond the schools and takes it to a life of learning
agenda as well. Those are the changes that I would make.
Q886 Chairman: Could I thank all
of you for putting up with our questions and say we are delighted
that you are here. Thank you very much.
Miss Clarke: Thank you for listening
to us.
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