Examination of Witnesses (Questions 200-219)
24 MAY 2004
MR ELLIOT
MORLEY, MP AND
DR LINDA
SMITH
Q200 Joan Ruddock: I am conscious of
the time otherwise I would like to pursue environmental liability
with you.
Mr Morley: That is a much wider
issue.
Q201 Joan Ruddock: It is a much wider
issue. From what has just been said by your adviser it is clear
that on the European Directive there will be Government consultation
and it is likely to begin in the autumn.
Mr Morley: That is right.
Q202 Joan Ruddock: So we will all look
out for that with interest. Just to return to the economic liability
and individual farmers, do you think there is any merit in the
suggestion that has been put forward by GeneWatch to have a tribunal
to deal with these matters?
Mr Morley: I think GeneWatch is
right, if you set up a fund it is inevitable that you would have
to have some form of tribunal both in terms of dealing with disputes
and possibly dealing with appeals as well. I think that would
be inevitable, yes.
Q203 Joan Ruddock: Finally, just to link
all of this liability to insurance. We have heard evidence and
we know that the insurance bodies have said at the moment they
are not prepared to issue policies to cover GM liabilities, so
what steps do you intend to take to encourage the insurance market
to develop?
Mr Morley: I think much depends
on the shape of the liability fund. If we go down the route of
the GM sector being responsible then, of course, primarily our
concern is to make sure that there is a level of compensation
and liability should it be needed. If that is in place, that is
our principal concern. It may well be that the GM sector will
wish to involve the insurance companies in how they operate. They
may wish to make insurance part of the contract in relation to
the product. There are price implications, of course, and they
would have to look at those in relation to the competitiveness
of the product, but it might be something that they may want to
do. That is an issue for the market to decide rather than us as
a Government.
Q204 Joan Ruddock: So you are just accepting
if the insurance companies do not move on this issue, and it appears
they will not at the moment, there has to be some other solution
and the Government does not take any steps to look at insurance?
Mr Morley: As we are approaching
it at the moment we are looking at the concept of a liability
fund or provision. Our stated view is that should come from the
sector basically.
Q205 Joan Ruddock: The corollary is you
do not envisage non-GM and organic farmers as having to take out
insurance against GM cultivation in this country?
Mr Morley: Not as a general rule.
I do think there is an issue of insurance generally for agriculture
and horticulture and livestock, but that is a much, much wider
issue which I do not think we want to go into today.
Chairman: You have mentioned consultation
on at least two occasions, I am going to ask Paddy to conclude
your evidence.
Paddy Tipping: I do not think it was
two occasions, I think it was every other sentence.
Q206 Chairman: I was being polite.
Mr Morley: We are a very open
Government.
Q207 Paddy Tipping: Just tell me what
is going to be in this consultation, the scope of it?
Mr Morley: Just very briefly,
the scope of it is we will have to operate within the legal framework,
which I have to keep coming back to. The consultation in terms
of co-existence will be based on the legal framework and how we
can deliver that, the ways that we can do that, issues of enforceability,
all the points that you have raised, separation distances, the
issue of science and how the distances have been come to, issues
of gene flow. It will all be in the consultation. As part of the
liability regime, we have explored some of the models and issues
that will be there, they will be part of the consultation. In
the consultation we will give options that people can consider
basically. Part of that consultation is the kind of response that
we will get to those options.
Q208 Paddy Tipping: When is this consultation
going to kick off because it has to be in place for planting next
year, has it not?
Mr Morley: We do not envisage
any planting next year, so therefore there is a bit of pressure
off. We envisage that the consultation document will be available
before recess. You do appreciate that there is always pressure
and slippage and I do not wish to—
Q209 Paddy Tipping: Which recess? The
summer recess?
Mr Morley: Yes, the summer recess.
Q210 Joan Ruddock: I thought you meant
the Whitsun recess.
Mr Morley: Whitsun is a bit overambitious.
Poor old Linda and her team were going white there at the idea
of that.
Q211 Paddy Tipping: Cancel your holidays
quick! So the kick-off may be before the summer recess.
Mr Morley: I hope so.
Q212 Paddy Tipping: What is the closing
date? Three months?
Mr Morley: It will be a three
month consultation, yes.
Q213 Paddy Tipping: You said as an aside
"we hope to have it ready for spring planting season 2005
but we do not think there is going to be any planting".
Mr Morley: That is still very
much in line with the kind of timescale. There is no reason why
we should not have this ready for spring 2005 but we are sure
that there will be no GM applications for the planting season
2005 and realistically not in 2005 at all.
Q214 Paddy Tipping: When can we expect
some planting?
Mr Morley: I guess the very earliest
is 2006 and I would be doubtful about that. Do you have any idea?
Dr Smith: Bayer were talking about
2008 before they would be ready with their next crop that they
wish to bring forward. Certainly there are not any crops that
are suitable to be grown in Britain that would necessarily have
varieties that were approved that would be suitable for growing
in Britain on the very near horizon. Although there are a couple
of maize GM events that are approved for cultivation, the varieties
that are approved are only suitable for growing in the Mediterranean,
the varieties are not suitable for growing in Britain.
Q215 Paddy Tipping: Just wrap this up
for me. In effect we have had a five year freeze, have we not?
Mr Morley: Yes.
Q216 Paddy Tipping: We are now in 2004.
Mr Morley: Yes.
Q217 Paddy Tipping: We are speculating
into the future and it looks as though we are going to have another
four year freeze at least.
Mr Morley: Definitely not in 2005
in my view, doubtful in 2006, probably realistically in 2007.
Q218 Paddy Tipping: I thought Linda had
mentioned 2008.
Dr Smith: I said Bayer said that
they were not proceeding until 2008.
Mr Morley: We just cannot really
say post-2005 for sure. In the regulatory pipeline you can see
what is coming down the pipeline and there is nothing coming that
will get here for some years. As Linda has said, there will be
some GM crops approved in Europe, in fact there are GM crops approved
in Europe now, and once you get approval within Europe then it
is legal to sell it in other countries, but the crops which have
approval are designed to resist pests for maize that you do not
get in this country, so it is not really suitable for growing
in this country and we are not going to see them.
Q219 Paddy Tipping: Just going back to
the consultation. It is going to go out and responses will come
back to the Department. Are you going to involve scientific groups
and advisory groups in looking at this, or is it a consultation
that you are doing yourselves?
Mr Morley: All the various groups
who have had an interest in GMs will be part of the consultation
and we will encourage them to give us their views.
Dr Smith: May I say something
about the devolved administrations who will be doing their own
consultations.
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