Examination of Witness (Questions 100-119)
15 JULY 2003
DR DAVID
KELLY
Q100 Andrew Mackinlay: You did not
discuss it with Gilligan?
Dr Kelly: No.
Q101 Andrew Mackinlay: So you made
no comments about the veracity of that document at all to Gilligan,
you did not say it was exaggerated, embellished, probably over-egged?
Dr Kelly: No, I had no doubt that
the veracity of it was absolute.
Q102 Chairman: Sorry, I had no doubts?
Dr Kelly: On the veracity of the
document.
Q103 Andrew Mackinlay: Did you express
any view about that document at all to him which you can share
with this Committee?
Dr Kelly: We are talking of a
conversation we had six weeks ago and for me it is very difficult
to recall that, so I cannot recall the comments that I made. All
I can say is that the general tenet of that document is one that
I am sympathetic to. I had access to an immense amount of information
accumulated from the UN that complements that dossier quite well,
remarkably so, and although the final assessment made by the United
Nations was status of verification documentation—not a threat
assessment, the UN did not make a threat assessment—put
the two together and they match pretty well.
Q104 Andrew Mackinlay: Okay. Dr Kelly,
a few moments ago I asked you for the names of other journalists
you have had contact with in the timescale we were talking about
and you said you have not got access to your home. We are going
to write formally to the MoD and by that time you will have done
your homework and sent it to us in an envelope, but this afternoon
can you tell me those journalists who you do recall having met
in the timescale? What are their names?
Dr Kelly: Having met?
Q105 Andrew Mackinlay: Yes.
Dr Kelly: I have met very few
journalists.
Q106 Andrew Mackinlay: I heard "few",
but who are the ones in your mind's eye at this moment? What are
their names?
Dr Kelly: That will be provided
to you by the Ministry of Defence.
Q107 Andrew Mackinlay: No, I am asking
you now. This is the high court of Parliament and I want you to
tell the Committee who you met.
Dr Kelly: On this occasion I think
it is proper that the Ministry of Defence communicates that to
you.
Chairman: But it is a proper question.
Andrew Mackinlay: You are under an obligation
to reply.
Chairman: If you have met journalists
there is nothing sinister in itself about meeting journalists,
save in an unauthorised way.
Q108 Andrew Mackinlay: Who are they?
Dr Kelly: The only people that
I can remember having spoken to in recent times about this particular
issue—not about this particular issue—is Jane Corbin
and Susan Watts.
Q109 Andrew Mackinlay: Okay. Can
I ask you this: I think part of what you have said in the press,
and I do have some sympathy with this, is that it was like a culture
and some of your meetings with the press were not necessarily
authorised but it was understood that you had been around a long
time, is that correct?
Dr Kelly: I do not think I have
made any such statement to the press.
Q110 Andrew Mackinlay: What are the
ground rules for talking to the press amongst you and your peers?
Dr Kelly: Normally you have to
have authorisation or a request by the Ministry to interact in
such a way.
Q111 Andrew Mackinlay: But you did
not on this occasion?
Dr Kelly: I did not.
Q112 Andrew Mackinlay: Why not?
Dr Kelly: I think you have to
look back at my history. I have been involved with the press for
ten to 12 years, primarily as an UNSCOM inspector, and when I
was a chief inspector I had responsibility for dealing with the
press. Since then I have been asked on many occasions by both
the United Nations and by the Foreign Office and the Ministry
of Defence to provide interviews both to British and international
press. As a consequence of that, it is quite often follow-ups
on clarification of issues with contact numbers, and so one responds
to that.
Q113 Andrew Mackinlay: Basically
you are saying you have a general mandate?
Dr Kelly: I would not say I have
a general mandate. Normally if I have an approach the request
is put to the Foreign Office press office and that is the routine
that I undertake.
Andrew Mackinlay: I am obliged, thank
you.
Q114 Chairman: What lessons have
you learned from this episode?
Dr Kelly: Never to talk to a journalist
again, I think.
Q115 Chairman: Are you going to respond
to any requests from Mr Gilligan again?
Dr Kelly: I think we will leave
that question. I think that one I can leave.
Q116 Richard Ottaway: Dr Kelly, you
confirmed in response to questions from Mr Pope that in your opinion
you do not think that you were the central source of Mr Gilligan's
report?
Dr Kelly: That is my belief.
Q117 Richard Ottaway: In Mr Gilligan's
report there were two fundamental assertions which have subsequently
been proved correct. One is that the 45 minute assertion was entered
late into the September dossier and, secondly, that the 45 minute
assertion came from a single, uncorroborated source. I think we
can safely say from what you have been saying that you were unaware
of either of those two things?
Dr Kelly: Correct.
Q118 Richard Ottaway: Given that
Mr Gilligan's source of the story has proved to be correct, do
you think it is fair to say that you could not have been the source?
It is not just a question of your opinion, but you could not have
been the source.
Dr Kelly: It is very difficult
for me to be that strong. I do realise that in the conversation
that I had there was reinforcement of some of the ideas he has
put forward.
Q119 Richard Ottaway: Given that
there were two assertions which have been proved correct, which
you did not know about, you clearly were not the source of those
assertions.
Dr Kelly: Correct.
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