Examination of Witnesses (Questions 160-172)
20 MAY 2004
RT HON
JOHN HUTTON
MP, MR JOHN
BACON, MS
ANN STEPHENSON
AND MR
GORDON HEXTALL
CB
Q160 Dr Naysmith: You said earlier this
year at a conference that it was an "enormous challenge"
and that the project was embarking on a "journey of exploration
and discovery".
Mr Hutton: Did I say that? Very
good.
Q161 Dr Naysmith: You did say that.
Mr Hutton: It is very poetic.
Q162 Dr Naysmith: How far along the journey
do you think you are? Are you still looking forward to lots of
excitement and discovering things you do not know about yet?
Mr Hutton: I think the beginning
of every journey is usually its happiest moment, is it not? It
is exciting. When you are 12 hours into the flight you are a bit
knackered and maybe not enjoying the journey so much. I think
we are at a critical point in the programme. We have done things
people said we would not be able to do. We have procured the equipment
at a price which is very good for the taxpayer and we have a proper
sharing of risk around implementation. As I keep saying, we are
at the really critical point of the programme now. In a sense
this is not really an IT programme at all. It looks like one,
but it is a people programme now. It is about what people do.
It is about how people respond to the programme and how we can
engage and excite our clinicians with the opportunities which
this new programme presents to them. We have bought the best kit
which is available anywhere in the world to do this sort of job
and now we have to engage our people on the frontline with the
technology which is available to them now. We probably all have
our own views about the NHS and experiences and so on, but you
show people in the NHS that this is going to improve things and
they will use it. If it does not improve things, they are not
going to use it. That is exactly the discipline which should now
be bearing down upon us. We spent a great deal of taxpayers' money
buying this kit. We now have this crucial job of work to do. I
am absolutely confident in the product we have procured and I
am amazingly confident in the quality of the people I have working
around this programme in the NHS and the Department of Health.
We have some of the best people, both in IT and in people management,
working with this programme, so I think we can make this bird
fly.
Q163 Mr Amess: Finally, something completely
different: the Patient Power system. I know from my time in hospital
radio broadcasting that the army of volunteers provide wonderful
entertainment and do genuinely cheer up patients, but this new
system appears to have had a few teething problems like knobs
dropping off and apparently complaints have been made that the
first generation of units could not be switched off. People, whether
or not they want to, have to view TV for 15 hours if they pay
for it, or advertisements for the providers of the systems if
they do not pay for it. The Committee have been advised that it
has also been reported that the majority of hospitals with second
generation sets are disabling the on/off switch centrally. Would
you like to comment on this? Is it a problem? Can we do anything
about it?
Mr Hutton: Patientline are trying
to respond to these concerns and trying to reassure patients and
the public about the service they are providing. You have to be
able to turn these things off, do you not? That is really quite
important. If you cannot, then there is something quite wrong.
Q164 Chairman: So you could have 15 hours
solid of David Amess.
Mr Hutton: Ultimately these are
problems for Patientline to sort out and they will sort these
out.
Q165 Mr Amess: Are we geeing them up
to get it sorted out quickly?
Mr Hutton: I think you could say
that.
Q166 Chairman: Are you confident you
are going to get a result?
Mr Hutton: Yes, Patientline will
get this sorted out.
Q167 Mr Burstow: In a Written Answer
you said to me that it was going to be acceptable for people just
to turn them away and place them against the wall.
Mr Hutton: I did not say that,
did I?
Q168 Mr Burstow: Yes, in a Written Answer
to me.
Mr Hutton: One of my Written Answers?
Q169 Mr Burstow: Yes. Do you really think
that is an adequate response, that they are just turned away from
the patient to face the wall?
Mr Hutton: No, I do not and if
I said that in a Written Answer I will have another look at it.
Q170 Mr Burstow: Please do. I should
be happy to have a correction on that.
Mr Hutton: No, that sucks. That
is not right.
Mr Burstow: It certainly does.
Q171 Dr Taylor: As minister with workforce
issues in your portfolio may I just alert you to two things which
are worrying some of the pre-registration house officers at the
moment, the most junior qualified doctors? First is the possibility
of the removal of free accommodation. As they are going onto a
shift system, so they do not have to be resident, some trusts
are planning to remove the free accommodation. That is one thing
which is a real blow to somebody who is just starting out with
a big debt behind them. The other thing, as they are going to
be working fewer hours, is that their pay is going to go down
as well. Those are just two things to alert you to and ask you
to bear in mind.
Mr Hutton: I shall certainly look
at that, but essentially in relation to accommodation, these are
primarily local issues. We have to address this issue about the
working hours of junior doctors in a sensible way. It is in no-one's
interest to keep juniors working the long hours they are currently
working. We need to make progress there and we need to address
the issues of accommodation sensibly as well. In relation to the
last point you made, the introduction of the Working Time Directive
is not going to mean a reduction in the pay of junior doctors.
They have a contract with us for a certain number of hours and
that is going to stay the case. The new deal contract is not changing
as a result of the Working Time Directive and junior doctors'
pay is conditional on the new deal not on the Working Time Directive.
Q172 Chairman: May I thank you and your
officials for a very interesting session? You indicated that you
would come back to us on one or two points. I am sure I can say
as well on behalf of the Committee that I should certainly like
to see the Leicester arrangements you mentioned and I am sure
my colleagues would, because it is an important development. We
are very grateful for your attendance this morning. Thank you.
Mr Hutton: We shall make arrangements
for that.
| 
