Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80-90)
10 MARCH 2004
PHIL HOPE
MP AND MR
PAUL EVERALL
Q80 Chairman: On the way? Butler &
Young have been lobbying the Committee, and they point out that
this promise was made back in 1997. On the way is not exactly
moving rapidly, is it?
Phil Hope: Chair, I understand
that. Somebody asked how we sleep at night. I sleep like a baby:
I cry for an hour, I sleep for an hour and then I cry for an hour.
This is not an easy job! What I can say to the Committee is that
within the next few weeks—another good news announcement
for you—we will be publishing a consultation document on
extending the ability of approved inspectors to encompass new
houses within their remit.
Q81 Chairman: When will it actually happen?
Phil Hope: Once we have published
the consultation document, we then have to consult. That will
take a period of three months. If we receive satisfactory responses
to that consultation, we will then publish the final document.
Mr Everall: We will amend the
regulations, so that all approved inspectors will be able to do
all work.
Q82 Chairman: Do you envisage that that
will actually produce more inspectors, or will it merely mean
that people who have been doing the work for local authorities
go to work for some of these private people?
Phil Hope: We understand that
point. The competition that will then emerge will help both to
ensure that consumers receive the protection they require, but
at competitive rates. The system of charging that local authorities
currently use is something else that is being reviewed at the
moment, and we will be publishing a consultation document on how
we might develop the charging process. I know that local authority
inspectors are concerned that there is a level playing field between
the private and the public sector. We wish to deliver the number
of inspectors required to do the work that needs to be done, and
to do so at competitive rates, and to do so in a way that has
a level playing field. The two consultation documents will hopefully
achieve that outcome.
Q83 Christine Russell: Another source
of insomnia for you: flooding. We understand that you are currently
having discussions with the Environment Agency regarding flooding.
Is that right?
Phil Hope: Over guidance in relation
to flood risk, yes.
Q84 Christine Russell: What about looking
at the Building Regulations as far as encouraging the use of,
if there is such a thing, flood-resistant materials, and obviously
looking at far better drainage systems?
Phil Hope: You are right. The
planning system deals with questions of planning in terms of flood
risk and flood plains and so on, which I will not enter into now.
We are looking to explore the case of bringing flood risk into
the Building Regulations. Flood resistance is quite important.
It is interesting how we reconcile—and this is the challenge
in the regulations—potentially conflicting regulations.
On the one hand, we can design buildings which create more resistance—not
resilience but resistance—for a building to be flooded,
if you think of a lintel or a step, but of course, we also have
Part M Building Regulations which are endeavouring to remove barriers
and widening doorways so that disabled people and wheelchair users
can get in and out of their properties more easily. There are
technical solutions to that, but I think it illustrates how through
the Building Regulations we need to reconcile possibly conflicting
Building Regulations both of which have perfectly valid objectives
and requirements that we want to solve, both of which might contradict
one another. There are, I am assured, technical solutions to that,
and it is that that we are trying to look at at the moment.
Q85 Christine Russell: Are you aware
that there appears to be a loophole in the regulations regarding
inadequate sewage systems? I am told that the Environment Agency
is quite happy to take up the issue where there is flooding that
is polluting water courses, but if it is flooding people's houses,
is that your department?
Phil Hope: Inasmuch as Building
Regulations might help to prevent properties being flooded where
flooding takes place, we are concerned about that. That is why
we are looking at the regulations to see whether we can do something
to ameliorate that. That there is flooding happening in an area
and the cause of that flooding, it is mainly DEFRA who have responsibility
in terms of the causes and therefore the solutions in terms of
laying sewers and the rest of it. Where it is the actual flow
of water—we were discussing this earlier—water conservation
in a house and what happens to wastewater and grey water and the
rest of it, yes, that is a matter for Building Regulations. We
had a small debate about what we were trying to achieve earlier.
Mr Everall: We have tried to develop
closer working relationships with both DEFRA and the Environment
Agency in the last two or three years, and I hope that between
us we can close any loopholes that might exist. There are a number
of bodies involved in these discussions.
Q86 Chairman: I ought to know a bit more
about this than I do: e-wiring or wiring your home up for computers.
Do the Building Regulations cover this in any way at all?
Phil Hope: I am not sure whether
Part P will.
Mr Everall: We went out to consultation
last year on what was going to be Part Q in our imaginative way
of framing the Building Regulations, which was promoting enclosing
ducts within housing for broadband wiring and things of that sort.
I have to say that the results of that have been somewhat inconclusive.
We have yet to make an announcement about the outcome, but it
is certainly something we have looked at.
Q87 Mr O'Brien: Is it not the case that
the need for that sort of approach is likely to be superseded
by the availability of so-called wi-fi technology?
Mr Everall: Precisely, but, as
I say, there has been no formal government announcement. It may
be within all these promises we are making to you this afternoon
that you will find one on this before too long. It is certainly
time that we announced the results of the consultation we carried
out last year.
Q88 Chairman: Is there any question that
we should have asked you that you are upset we have not asked
you?
Phil Hope: When I was preparing
for this meeting and realised we had the whole panoply from A
to Q of building Regulations that could be covered, I was wondering
if there was anything we would not be covering. No, I think we
have traversed a huge amount of territory today and, as I said
at the start, the level of activity now going on in the Building
Regulations world is very high, I think with good intent and good
outcome. I am looking forward over the next few months to seeing
a number of important documents being released and a number of
changes coming along that will achieve our energy efficiency goals,
that will help improve fire safety and help our wider community
to be satisfied that we are taking their concerns seriously.
Q89 Mr O'Brien: Do you receive representations
from the DIY industry about the implications of regulations on
the ability to make home improvements?
Phil Hope: Yes. If you take the
Part P on electrical installation, for example, if people want
to change a socket in their home, how much are they going to be
affected by that if they are doing a piece of DIY and whether
they will be subject to Building Regulations are exactly the kind
of thing we do take into account when we are looking at Building
Regulations and the extent to which they are both right and enforceable,
and do not impose burdens that people cannot cope with but do
provide the necessary protection.
Mr Everall: One of our more difficult
challenges is to know what to include and exclude. We normally
exclude certain forms of minor work from the Building Regulations.
Clearly, it would be ludicrous to have to apply for building control
to change a light bulb, but re-wiring can lead to real safety
problems, and how to tackle the DIY market is quite challenging.
Q90 Chairman: We have talked about the
regulations from A to Q. Would it be possible for you to supply
us with a table showing us exactly where we are up to with each
of the reviews that is going on and the date at which you hope
the updated regulations will be in place?
Phil Hope: I will be delighted
to do that for you. That is not a problem at all.
Chairman: On that note, can I thank you
very much for your evidence.
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