Examination of Witnesses (Questions 360-379)
18 SEPTEMBER 2003
COUNCILLOR ANGIE
ROBINSON AND
MS HILARY
MARTIN
Q360 Dr Pugh: What about the role
of the voluntary sector? There are some voluntary sectors having
significant funds given to them and they can be accused of empire-building,
is there any of that in Rochdale?
Ms Martin: I am not aware of any.
Q361 Chairman: It is difficult for
us when you pull a face like that, we cannot get it down on the
shorthand note.
Cllr Robinson: There is nothing
that immediately springs to mind that has presented that kind
of problem for us but that is not to say that everything in the
garden is always rosy. Sometimes you may need to refocus on some
of the work that you do in partnership. No, there does not seem
to be any one that is a prime contender to build up almost an
industry or a kingdom of their own and go it alone, we work very,
very closely.
Q362 Chris Mole: Councillor Robinson
you effectively wear two hats and this question will make sense
as it unfolds, what responsibility do you have as a politician
(rather than a representative of the Council) in promoting cohesion?
Cllr Robinson: I view it very
much in the way that I view my Council responsibilities and the
way that the Council operates but it is something that is across
all of the things that we do. As you were saying we do not have
community cohesion hour or anything like that, but politically
I feel it is the way that I deal with the people I represent and
what we promote in making leaps with diverse groups that is important.
I am a Middleton councillor and I have a small part of Langley
in my ward, recently there was the annual Mela that we hold in
Rochdale in an area that has a majority of white council tenants.
It is well attended by the local people and people from Asian
communities but a dance troupe from my ward of young people went
across and performed. It is this kind of thing that I feel we
should be trying to build as political representatives and also
communicate it within my own political group too.
Q363 Chris Mole: That is a positive
example. Your memorandum talks about where councillors have taken
the lead and supported officers in challenging unacceptable behaviour
on the part of "so-called community leaders". What is
behind that euphemism?
Ms Martin: It partly goes back
to the previous question in terms of when you are working in partnership
with other people and other organisations and some of the stances
they take you feel do not fit with the principles of community
cohesion or diversity or whatever and that we are not frightened
to say so and that partnerships are strong enough to allow people
to disagree within them. I cannot give you a specific example
but I could find you one.
Q364 Chris Mole: Councillor Robinson,
in what sort of circumstance might officers be worried if you
were to undermine their position and support a community group
for electoral advantage? An interesting development in Rochdale
is the election pledge signed by the three main political parties,
presumably that is part of the process of helping that? How did
that come about?
Cllr Robinson: It came about a
little while ago when we were looking at diversity and fairness
and it arose from there. We have now acknowledged it is not just
at election times but this is something that we should be nurturing
and making happen and we are now making that an all-year-round
pledge for politicians to be signed up to and not just signed
up to but to act in a way that you do undertake your duties and
responsibilities to carry this across.
Q365 Chris Mole: How easy do you
think it will be to take this approach to other councils?
Ms Martin: Other councils are
very interested in it through the beacon.
Chairman: It does not cause any money,
it is a matter of political will.
Q366 Chris Mole: How many have made
enquiries of you?
Ms Martin: I would not like to
give you numbers but at the beacon council learning exchange day
there were about 120 people and we had copies which disappeared
very quickly compared to other things that were taken.
Cllr Robinson: We have had general
enquiries about that as well.
Q367 Chris Mole: What was the media
response to that, did they say you were avoiding difficult questions?
Cllr Robinson: I think it was
positive. We have a positive relationship certainly in relation
to community cohesion issues with our local media. Obviously newspapers
like stories that sell newspapers but there is a sensitivity in
the way of reporting in relation to some matters, so there is
not perhaps the cynicism that could be applied to an initiative
like this, that honestly was not there. It was a positive report.
Ms Martin: I would not add anything
about the background to the election pledge but representatives
from the local media form part of the LSP subgroup responsible
for over-seeing our community cohesion pathfinder programme. Recently
the editor has moved on but the person who has replaced him is
taking the same sort of line, if not a stronger line, she is apparently
very reluctant to publish anonymous letters in the Rochdale
Observer because a lot of the unacceptable views come out
anonymously.
Chris Mole: That is a significant issue
we have discovered in Oldham.
Q368 Chairman: Is it true that the
Rochdale Observer is a biweekly rather than a daily, so it does
reduce a bit of the pressure for the editor to have something
sensational in everyday?
Cllr Robinson: That is very fair.
Q369 Chris Mole: Is there any more
that you think can be done to promote positive reporting in both
the local and national media?
Ms Martin: I am sure there is.
Q370 Chairman: Can I take you on
to the question of housing, when the Select Committee came to
look at the problems of empty homes, we had some very positive
evidence and a very positive visit to Rochdale. Of course there
are people who say select committees produce reports and they
are forgotten about but it did actually produce from Government
the response of Pathfinder areas and some money for you to tackle
the problem but then we were told that you would be very positive
over the years about encouraging mixed communities on your housing
estates. Why did that happen?
Cllr Robinson: I think going back
over time, and I am talking considerable time here, before we
spoke about social inclusion or community cohesion there was a
recognition of diversity within the communities that make up our
borough and for people to be in good quality housing and have
access to services. Mixed communities I think were viewed as being
a positive because without that we then get isolation.
Q371 Chairman: Viewed as a positive
by the Council or viewed as a positive by most of the tenants?
Cllr Robinson: With some tenants,
yes, others, no. For example with some people perhaps who you
are trying to encourage to move into what was at one time termed
a non-traditional area it is not always favourable. We have continued
to work at this and through the Asian Housing Strategy as well,
which is reviewed annually. The term "Asian Housing Strategy"
was what the communities wanted it called. I think in some of
the privately owned housing areas, particularly where we have
renewal areas, it was quite favourable, people saw each other
just as neighbours, it did not matter which background you came
from.
Q372 Chairman: It did take some very
positive initiatives from the Council to ensure that this sort
of thing could work.
Cllr Robinson: Yes, it did.
Q373 Chris Mole: Similarly to what
extent have you found it possible to develop mixed intakes into
some of your schools?
Cllr Robinson: I think secondary
schools are exceedingly successful. The infant and junior schools
are influenced very much by the nature of where people are living,
where we do have concentrations of people from a single background
or backgrounds and it is not as successful but what we do have
there through the education department is we have twinning and
linking arrangements, where children from Asian communities are
linked with children from white communities. It is not just the
children it is the parents too.
Q374 Chris Mole: What is the general
trend, are schools becoming more or less mixed? Do you think that
the Council has sufficient power to challenge that or does it
not need to be challenged?
Cllr Robinson: In my view it would
be preferable if schools were more mixed but there are a number
of factors that stop a council sometimes from developing|
Q375 Chris Mole: Parental preference
being the obvious one.
Cllr Robinson: Yes. Also schools
who have control over their own admission policies, so it is not
easy to get an even strategy.
Q376 Chris Mole: Is it in church
schools particularly that councils could do with a bit more leverage?
Ms Martin: I do not think it is
particularly.
Cllr Robinson: It depends what
you are aiming to do in relation to this. Perhaps if we could
have a little more say, yes, but in relation to other issues that
fall alongside for education I would say no.
Q377 Chris Mole: On the numbers do
you have any idea whether more schools are becoming mono-ethnic?
Ms Martin: I do not think they
are.
Q378 Chris Mole: Has it kind of levelled
out to where it is?
Cllr Robinson: As we were saying
once it comes to secondary level schools are very integrated.
Q379 Chairman: When did you phase
out middle schools? When you were phasing out middle schools did
you make a positive decision about changing the schools to try
and improve the ethnic mix within the schools?
Ms Martin: I would not be able
to answer that.
Cllr Robinson: I was not a councillor
then.
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