Examination of Witnesses (Questions 196
- 199)
TUESDAY 29 JUNE 2004
DR ANGUS
MURDOCH
Q196 Chairman: Can I welcome you
to the Committee and can I ask you to introduce yourself for the
record. Do you want to have an opening statement or are you happy
for us to go right into questioning.
Dr Murdoch: I will introduce myself
first. I am Dr Angus Murdoch from the Community Law Partnership,
a partnership of solicitors in Birmingham where we have a Travellers'
Advice Team, and we represent Gypsies and Travellers on a nationwide
basis. My opening: 10 years after the duty to provide sites for
Gypsies and Travellers was replaced by a policy of private site
provision, it is manifest that the policy has failed both the
settled and the Traveller communities, resulting in the current
lose/lose position where some 4,000 Gypsy families have no other
option but to park on unauthorised roadside and other inappropriate
sites which cause problems for them in terms of access to basic
human rights such as clean water, sanitation, refuse collection
and access to essential health and education services. Such sites
also cause friction between Travellers and settled communities
by virtue of their inappropriate locations and clear-up costs.
Simply forcing these Travellers onto a never-ending misery-go-round
of repeated evictions represents the worst value for all concerned.
In the situation where Pat Niner suggests up to 4,500 extra pitches
are needed, eviction is simply no solution. It cannot be beyond
the wit of man to find accommodation provision for some 4,500
families from Britain's oldest ethnic minority group while simultaneously
and consequently reducing the unauthorised encampments which exist.
That is my opening.
Chairman: Thank you very much. Christine
Russell?
Q197 Christine Russell: Do you ever
advise a Gypsy or a Traveller against applying for planning permission?
If you do in what circumstances do you give that advice?
Dr Murdoch: I have never advised
a Gypsy or Traveller not to apply for planning permission because
to try to make an unauthorised use of land authorised has to be
the best way forward, rather than merely residing there and taking
no action. So we do not advise them not to apply for planning
permission but we advise them to find an appropriate piece of
land and apply for planning permission then.
Q198 Christine Russell: So the advice
you would give is not this plot of land but try this one instead?
Dr Murdoch: Could you repeat that
please?
Q199 Christine Russell: If a Gypsy
or Traveller came to you and said, "I want to settle in this
particular area," you would say, "Do not choose that
plot because that is quite clearly green belt or the local farmer
has been refused permission for a property for his son or daughter,
but try this plot instead"?
Dr Murdoch: No, that is not necessarily
how we work. We normally work with people who have already bought
a piece of land and who have pulled on and are facing enforcement
action. That is the moment at which we normally give advice. We
are dealing with a situation where people are either living on
unauthorised roadside encampments, many of which are in green
belt or in AONBs which lack planning permission and are trespassing,
or they are going to be on their own land merely without planning
permission and not trespassing. To my mind that represents a lesser
harm.
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