Examination of Witnesses (Questions 180
- 186)
WEDNESDAY 24 MARCH 2004
MR GRAHAM
ALLEN MP, MR
MARK FISHER
MP, MR RICHARD
SHEPHERD MP, MR
PAUL TYLER
MP AND RT
HON SIR
GEORGE YOUNG
BT, MP
Q180 Sir Robert Smith: I think we
have touched on this already but it is a question on the role
of chairmen in committees in terms of whether to call meetings
of the programming sub-committee if they feel things are going
wrong or, as has been suggested, they feel they could be better
used. Should this be done informally or should it be enshrined
in Standing Orders that the chairman has a role to protect the
backbenchers in that situation?
Mr Tyler: I suspect it is going
to have to be enshrined in Standing Orders, because otherwise
it will be so difficult for the chair to be able to exert that
informal influence.
Mr Shepherd: But Standing Orders
do make provision for reconvening and asking for more time, and
the Government consistently suspend it. I suggest you direct that
question to Mr Hain and ask him why it is they consistently suspend
that facility.
Q181 Chairman: As he is likely to
come before us, can I say that that question will be put to the
Leader of the House, and I thank Mr Shepherd for enforcing his
requirement that it should.
Sir George Young: I favour the
chairman having that discretion.
Q182 Chairman: But should it be enshrined
in Standing Orders?
Sir George Young: Yes, I am in
favour of him having the power to initiate the process.
Mr Fisher: I too.
Q183 Sir Robert Smith: There is one
reservation that some of the chairmen have had, which is that
it could jeopardise their impartiality if they are seen to be
siding with the backbenchers rather than serving the whole Committee.
Sir George Young: I have every
confidence in the Chairmen's Panel to exercise that power without
incurring that criticism.
Mr Tyler: I agree. Since the Speaker
very often says, and this should apply to the whole Speaker's
Panel, that it is his responsibility to defend the rights of backbenchers,
this is a very practical way in which he could do so.
Mr Fisher: Hear, hear.
Mr Shepherd: I just chuckle!
Mr McWalter: So, Chairman, we have reached
the stage where we are not only saying the chairman should be
active in this whole process of programming within the committee
but he should also be active in terms of recommendations about
the way the Report Stage is held, and I think that is something
which previously we have not quite focused on in this way.
Q184 Chairman: Is there anything
else which our extremely helpful witnesses would wish to add to
their concluding remarks?
Mr Fisher: One further point,
Sir Nicholas. Everything you are discussing is of such interest
and central importance to the role of every Member of this House,
particularly backbenchers, that this Report, more than the average
Select Committee report, really needs to be debated, when you
do put it in front of the House, on the floor of the House at
a time which will encourage and enable Members of this House to
discuss it. We have got to the nub of many things, the whole balance
between the legislature and the executive, and this should be
properly deployed. It has been from my point of view a very interesting
debate in this chamber but there have only been 15 or so of us,
and this is something which affects all 659 of us.
Q185 Chairman: I believe debates
of the Procedure Committee are matters for the House as a whole,
and I would hope that the Government would meet the request which
you have made, which certainly would be the request of this Committee
as a whole, that any report we produce which is answered by the
Government should be debated, and I hope it will be soon, it will
be on the floor of the main Chamber of the House of Commons.
Mr Shepherd: Sir Nicholas, with
your tolerance, may I say something else?
Q186 Chairman: Of course.
Mr Shepherd: When the predecessor
Committee of this distinguished assemblage reported in favour
of programming, the motion was properly put by the then Leader
of the House, John Biffen, to the House, and in putting the motion,
because it was a free vote in those days, he said that we should
remember that today's Government is potentially tomorrow's Opposition,
and in the remembrance of that the House then voted down programming.
I hope that is helpful!
Chairman: I am sure that is not the last
word on the subject, but on behalf of all my colleagues and the
one or two who have had to go, can I thank the witnesses who have
come before us this afternoon for their amazingly helpful and
instructive response to the many questions which have been put
to them. They have been very helpful indeed. Thank you very much.
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