Memorandum by the Clerk of the
House of Commons
Introduction
Following the March 2003 Report from the Welsh Affairs
Committee on The Primary Legislative Process as it affects Wales
and the Government's Reply of July 2003, the Clerk of the National
Assembly for Wales and I set up in December 2003 a Working Group
of House of Commons and National Assembly officials to report
on how the Committee's proposals for joint working could best
be taken forward, in particular those for a regular joint meeting
between Assembly Members and the Welsh Grand Committee and for
joint select committee meetings.
Working Group
The Working Group reported to us on 6 April 2004.
Its report is attached. I understand that the Clerk of the National
Assembly will be putting its conclusions to the Business Committee
there. In this note I set out some of the specific issues upon
which the Procedure Committee is asked to pronounce.
Principle of "reciprocal enlargement"
The basis proposed for joint working is described
in the report as "reciprocal enlargement". It has the
benefit of reliance on existing institutions rather than the creation
of new ones. I am confident that the advice on privilege relayed
in paragraph 7 of the report is sound, but would be happy to enlarge
on the point if the Committee so wished.
Language
In paragraphs 17 and 25 it is proposed that the current
rules on the use of the Welsh language in parliamentary proceedings,
which have been examined on several recent occasions by the Committee,
be relaxed for the proposed enlarged meetings. If the principle
of joint working is accepted, there seems to be no obvious reason
not to make these changes, which follow naturally from the statutory
obligations placed upon the National Assembly.
Quorum
In paragraph 9 the Working Group raises the question
of quorum in enlarged meetings. I agree with its conclusions.
If the quorum requirement is clearly laid down in the standing
orders of the House and the Assembly in respect of each body's
own Members, this would in practice be sufficient authority for
whoever was chairing a meeting to apply the rule.
Lords
The Working Group's parliamentary ambit is of course
restricted to the House of Commons; but I understand that, as
reflected in paragraph 23 of the paper, the National Assembly
would be keen to provide for joint working with Joint (and possibly
House of Lords) Committees, especially those established to examine
draft Bills. The Committee is therefore asked to consult on this
possibility with its Lords counterpart.
Conclusion
The Committee may of course consider that there will
in practice be relatively little use of the power envisaged to
hold "enlarged meetings". SO No. 137A agreed in July
2001 gave power to select committees to share papers with committees
in the devolved jurisdictions; although little used, these powers
are there to be used if and when required. The power of "reciprocal
enlargement" may also be relatively little used, but it is
actively sought by at least one House of Commons Committee and
has support in the National Assembly. I understand that the Welsh
Affairs Committee would seek to use such powers should it be asked
to examine a draft Wales-only Bill in the summer of 2004, as it
was in both 2002 and 2003.
The Working Group's report is limited to questions
of procedure and machinery; and in this covering memorandum I
have also not sought to discuss the question of principle whether
formal joint meetings between the House of Commons and the National
Assembly are necessary or desirable. The Committee will, however,
wish to bear in mind that recommendations and eventual decisions
on the points raised in the Working Group's report are likely
to be seen as setting a precedent which could be applicable in
relation to other institutions. In particular, the Leader of the
House's recent memorandum to the Modernisation Committee on the
Scrutiny of European Business in the House of Commons (HC 508)
puts forward a proposal for a new European Grand Committee involving
UK Members of the European Parliament as well as Members of both
the House of Commons and the House of Lords; and it suggests that
the Modernisation Committee might wish to consult the Procedure
Committee about the details of that proposal.
Roger Sands
Clerk of the House
14 April 2004
