| Higher Education Bill
|
|
Mr. Allen: I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that there is a Brussels Gravier train. Mr. Boswell: Indeed, I am not. There may be, but it does not arise on this amendment or, amazingly, in my train of thought. If I may pin the Minister down on what I think is an important issue, I see no reference—either in the Bill or in the draft letter of guidance to OFFA—to whether EU students are included. I presume that the Minister has it in mind that access plans for universities—which have no territorial reference, other than a territorial location in England, hence their regulator being the director of fair access at HEFCE—will not include a report on EU students who are not United Kingdom students, or even, as a sub-set issue, on EU students who were resident in other parts of the United Kingdom transferring across the boundaries between the parts. It is an important point, and the Minister should give thought to whether OFFA's remit runs to those considerations, and to the wider issue of students from outwith the EU, probably paying full fees, who are on exactly identical first-degree courses to those who are within the regulated sector. If OFFA is going to have to look at the whole shooting match, it will make a considerable difference. To return to the practical world, I remind the Minister of the concern I expressed on an intervention. There is also the issue of who would be a disadvantaged student if overseas students could be taken into account. We could have a situation in which the Estonian was preferred to the Etonian in our universities. In conclusion, I shall make some general points about this discussion. First, it is widely agreed that we wish to encourage access and participation. My hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) produced a powerful intervention on that point. We will not argue that point and, in fairness, we have not had the class war engaged on it—we agree. I remind the Committee that Benjamin Disraeli referred to the two nations in this country and, like the hon. Member for Nottingham, North, I am concerned that, despite the fact that we have empowered so many young people to go to university, we are still missing out on some people. I can find some non-fashionable bits of my constituency that have these problems. We can all do that; it is not an issue between us. Secondly, improving access cannot be a unilateral process on the part of the universities. This is absolutely critical, and this point kept coming back in the debate. The universities can play their part, but unless there is compulsion, they cannot force disadvantaged students through their doors, even if they wish to. I am thinking of John Maynard Keynes Column Number: 508 and the famous remark that re-stimulating an economy was rather like pushing on a string. One cannot do it. It may be possible to encourage and it is certainly possible to provide information, role models, and to be less stuffy than was the pattern in the past. All universities are now engaged in doing this.The third point is that it remains better if the universities conduct this task through their own plans, just as it is better for them to form academic judgments as to who should be admitted to them. Furthermore, if there is to be a regulator—in fairness to the Minister, despite the strictures I have given about the coverage of the regulator, this is not drafted as a heavy-touch, teeth-ridden document; it will depend on what happens in the event—it is better that regulation is done as generally and as objectively as possible.
3.30 pmComing back to merit, potential and admissions, there is the problem of how anyone can exercise judgment in these areas, alongside the growing practice of judicial review and a readiness among our constituents to take up litigation wherever they can. It is usually the articulate, learned and determined middle classes who will avail themselves of those opportunities. At least we are better off if we stick to the generality. My problem with the mechanism that is being set up, quite apart from or perhaps because of the way in which it has come into existence, is that different agendas are hidden behind it. There is an agenda that wishes to promote the class war, although, thank goodness, it has not surfaced in this debate. There is an agenda that is anxious to intervene on admissions and to change the pattern of admissions for reasons that have little to do with academic merit or potential and are driven by malice or otherwise. Chris Grayling: Would my hon. Friend consider it important that the Minister, when he clarifies what he means by fair access, could tell us how the Government define groups that are under-represented in higher education, which is clearly integrally linked to the issues we are discussing today? Mr. Boswell: I agree with that. I accept the Minister's encyclopaedic knowledge of the labour movement. I also accept his good will in the matter. There are many people who would like to intervene on the specific and there are lots of people whose agendas are not quite as objectively motivated as they may appear. I saw a few signs of that from those on the Labour Benches whose views are dripping with interventionism in this matter. If that happens it will damage the universities. It will be demeaning to the students who are admitted and it will not achieve the growth in potential that we all wish to see. My biggest worry, my fundamental reason for opposing these proposals, is not so much the proposals themselves although, as my hon. Friend said, they need clarification, it is what they may lead to. First, there may be specific controversies, which will then generate heat for further and damaging intervention of a specific kind. Secondly—this has been touched on a little—if they do not work and if there is not a huge Column Number: 509 bouleversement in the socio-economic characteristics of university entry, those who are interested in social engineering will come back to the charge. They will argue that they have to do the job properly: the regulator's remit will have to be re-jigged or the Secretary of State will have to give him instructions. At that point, all the Minister's fair intentions and all his assurances will be switched off. That would be a bad day for our universities, for our students and for academic freedom.Mr. George Mudie (Leeds, East) (Lab): Much as I sometimes, albeit infrequently, fall out with my party, it does not half take a good session in Committee with the Opposition to make one realise how wonderful one's own party is. Hearing privilege being defended in such a nice, polite way, makes me wonder why we do not go back to the old feudal system. We would know our place. I have been in the House long enough to remember when the disability legislation passed through Parliament and I hear resonances of some of the speeches that were made then about access for disabled people. The hon. Member for Daventry described our views as dripping with interventionism. I am all in favour of intervening, because my money is funding most of these universities and I do not see any reason why I should not intervene, ask questions or have a transparent system. All that I am after—but it is not acceptable to the Opposition—and all that the Minister is after is fair access. The Opposition are opposed to that; they seek to delete it from the Bill. This has been a good debate; I would like to see more debates on the issue. It is one of those corners that is not often reached in Parliament; a corner of British life that has been left undisturbed. ''Keep giving us the money, don't ask any questions, you can trust us.'' That sounds like the Fees Office to me. The Fees Office is tightening up, so I do not see why we should not tighten up. The Opposition want to remove fair access and insert something about merit and potential. Potential is a wonderful word. I am a great football man. No one in this room would agree on the potential of one player. If we all sat down and decided what that potential was, everyone would have a different opinion. It is a lovely word if one wants to keep the flexibility one has enjoyed for 100 years. Let us not base the criteria just on merit; let us throw in flexibility, because it gives us a good back door out. With the guillotine coming some time this afternoon, I fear that we will be prevented, even under your skilled chairmanship, Mr. Gale, from reaching other parts of the Bill. I should not have thought that anyone would fall out with the governors over an access plan promoting higher education under fair access, or promoting equality of opportunity in connection with access to higher education. Would any Committee member suggest that it would be wrong for the governing body to take measures to attract not admissions—good God, that would be going too far, but we will let prospective students send a letter so that we can turn them down because of their potential—but
Column Number: 510 I should have thought that that was reasonably accepted all around as a key part of fair access, except that when the Chairman pushes us on and we reach clause 31, the Opposition have tabled amendments to both those provisions, deleting the reference to under-representation and changing ''must'' to ''may'' on just the question of promoting higher education on the grounds of equality. As we part the veils and the discussion continues, we see not class hatred but disdain of my class. I speak as one of those described as non-traditional, non-fashionable or non-academic. I am probably the only member of the Committee able to speak on the matter, because I am the sort of person to whom the hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell referred. I do not have any class hatred, but the Conservative party has class hatred for my type, because your party—not your party, Mr. Chairman; well, it is—
|
| |
| ©Parliamentary copyright 2004 | Prepared 4 March 2004 |
