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Mr. Robert Jackson (Wantage) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend agree that the belief that parity of esteem can be generated by a single formal structure of formal qualifications is simply too mechanistic? Surely a better route to it is the pursuit of higher levels of individual attainment and ambition in both academic and vocational studies.

Will my right hon. Friend tell us something about the relationship between her proposals and the promotion of two-year vocational foundation degrees at universities, which is such an important step for the future?

Ruth Kelly: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point out that we must continue to raise standards in our schools and colleges, but also raise the ambitions and aspirations of all our young people. That is what my proposals set out to do—and yes, we should have diplomas designed by employers and leading directly to university foundation degrees.

It may become much easier for young people to go to university when they have qualifications that are recognised by employers and the university system. That is how to achieve parity of esteem between the academic and vocational.

Mr. Roy Beggs (East Antrim) (UUP): Which of the initiatives that the Secretary of State has announced will apply to Northern Ireland, and do the Government intend to introduce a genuinely comprehensive education system to the Province?
 
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Ruth Kelly: We will obviously go on working with those in Northern Ireland to see how the arrangements might apply to them, but I can confirm that the proposals I have announced apply to England.

Mr. George Mudie (Leeds, East) (Lab): I welcome the attempt to raise standards, but as an inner-city Member I see inner-city teachers and pupils struggling because of such factors as background. Changes in systems are fine, but does the Secretary of State accept that it is impossible to reach the standards of which she speaks in inner cities unless inner-city schools, with all their genuine and long-lasting problems, are given the same resources as leafy-lane suburban schools? Is there anything about that in the White Paper?

Ruth Kelly: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the need for more investment in the inner cities. Our excellence in cities initiative has already driven up standards in participating areas. My hon. Friend is also right to draw attention to the practical challenge of delivering that agenda, but we have seen examples of its being done. In Knowsley, for instance, schools have been working in networks with employers and the FE sector to give young people an opportunity to take up apprenticeships. We have seen their motivation increase and their standards rise. We have seen the agenda work in practice, and now we must ensure that it is delivered throughout the country.

Sir Sydney Chapman (Chipping Barnet) (Con): I listened carefully to the statement. Near the beginning, the right hon. Lady said unequivocally that our education system had been failing the majority. Does she really believe that? If so, it is an appalling indictment of her predecessors and, perhaps, of those who work in the system, including my daughter. Surely the right hon. Lady should have said that the education system had been failing too many pupils, and addressed herself to that problem rather than trying to make that statement embrace the vast majority.

Ruth Kelly: There are always some who argue that the best education system is one that creates and fosters an elite. I do not agree. I think we should aspire to much more. We have raised standards—more than half our young people gain five A to C grades at higher levels—but too many people are left drifting at 14, too many are defined by failure at 16, and too many drop out of the system altogether at 17. The challenge that we must address is an historic weakness in our education system, and I believe that this is the way in which to address it.

Mr. Eric Joyce (Falkirk, West) (Lab): As my right hon. Friend will know, the new "higher still" structure in Scotland works extremely well in tandem with the traditional Scottish variants of A-levels and GCSEs, highers and standards. Does she agree that we can learn a good deal from that positive experience?

Ruth Kelly: Yes, I do. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the Scottish experience, and Wales has also had an interesting experience in this regard. We must learn from what works, but it is just as important for us to work with employers and the higher education sector to establish whether we can add value to our
 
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existing A-level system. It is clear to me, and there is a clear consensus, that we must add opportunities for stretch—there are children who could do more than they are doing now—but there may also be opportunities for breadth, which is why we are piloting the extended project proposed by Sir Mike Tomlinson. I will work with the HE sector and employers to discover whether they would like more stretch than the current system offers.

Dr. John Pugh (Southport) (LD): The Secretary of State seems to think that breadth, as well as the ubiquitous stretch, is a good thing, but I think I am being fair when I say that her statement implied that she does not have a clue how to achieve it. Is that a fair précis?

Ruth Kelly: I have made it absolutely clear that HE modules and the extended project give us ways of offering A-level students more. We will also test advanced extension awards in A-levels, which will give students a real opportunity to show their potential. There is, however, no clear consensus in the higher education sector or among employers on whether pupils should do more than the current A-level system offers—whether they should study a broader range of subjects alongside their A-level subjects. I want to work with universities and employers to establish what, if anything, could add value to the studies that pupils currently pursue.

Mrs. Anne Campbell (Cambridge) (Lab): Cambridge is one of the universities that has called for greater discrimination between students getting top A-level grades. Their wish will not be completely satisfied by making A-level unit results available to universities before they make their offers. Can my right hon. Friend outline some of the measures that she will take to ensure that there is greater discrimination, particularly between students who are getting three As at A-level?

Ruth Kelly: Some universities do indeed say that because 3.5 per cent. of students now achieve three A grades at A-level, they want to be able to discriminate between those students. I have responded to that in my proposals. I will act immediately to make unit grades available at AS-level, so that that information will be available to universities before they make offers. Once PQA comes in, it will be possible to provide unit results and marks at A-level as well as AS-level. However, universities are also interested in seeing whether they can use the scholarship, self-study, research and softer skills that are acquired in doing the extended project as a basis on which to differentiate between pupils. Therefore, we will test the extended project and HE modules in schools, too. I am sure that universities will be interested in those.

Miss Julie Kirkbride (Bromsgrove) (Con): The Secretary of State's answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr. Taylor) was a bit of a cop-out. She must be aware that there is a collapse in the number of students taking pure science at university. The principal reason is that not enough pupils take chemistry, biology and physics at GCSE. Instead they are pushed into combined sciences. What specifically
 
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will she do in the area of science to increase both stretch and breadth, which she has said so much about, because that needs to be done as a matter of urgency?

Ruth Kelly: I agree that we need to motivate more students as a matter of urgency, which is why we have worked with the science community to review the science curriculum at key stage 4. Those changes will be in place by 2006, so we have recognised the urgent need to get more students to be motivated by science both at key stage 3 and at key stage 4 and to continue with it. We are taking science seriously. As a result, 80 per cent. of students will continue to take at least two science GCSEs and we will see more students continuing to pursue science as a career option after they have done their GCSEs.

Keith Vaz (Leicester, East) (Lab): I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement and congratulate her on what she said, but will she confirm that the Government's policy towards faith-based schools has not changed, that schools such as the Islamic school in Leicester, St. Paul's Catholic school and the Swaminarayan Hindu Mission school in north London will continue to receive Government support and will be acknowledged as part of the education system of this country?

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