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Tim Loughton: Is the Minister seriously saying that the number of people who are dying from hospital-acquired infections in 2005 is the same as the number who died in 1980?
Miss Johnson:
I am saying that the rate of infection is the same, and has consistently remained about the same, over the past 25 years. As my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Andrew Mackinlay) rightly said, we were the first Government to introduce mandatory surveillance for MRSA bloodstream infections. That was initiated in 2001 and has since been extended to other infections. More data should be available later this year. The Conservatives were so unconcerned about this when they were in power that they did not even begin to count the number of infections. The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham attempted to pin it on the then Labour Opposition, but we must have done something right, as we have been in government since 1997. He ignored the work done by my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside (Mr. Blunkett) and my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock in raising this
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issue in the past. When Conservative Members were in government they did not raise the matter at all—they did not worry about it and did nothing to counter it.
Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East) (Con): Does the Minister believe that the Opposition are raising the issue because of statistics published by the Government or because of the experience of constituents, who report to us time and again that they and their loved ones have been infected, sometimes fatally? She seems to be in denial about the fact that there is a problem. Let her go on denying it—it may enable her to score debating points in this Chamber, but it will not wash with the public out there.
Miss Johnson: The reason why the Opposition keep raising this matter has nothing to do with the issuing of statistics, nor with its having been raised with them by members of the public—many issues are raised with us—and everything to do with denigrating the NHS and providing a setting in which they can undermine public confidence in it in order to remove £2 billion—[Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. The House must come to order.
Miss Johnson: The truth of the matter is that the Opposition do it to try to get into government so that they can remove £2 billion to prop up those choosing private health care at the expense of the vast majority of patients using the NHS.
Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): Perhaps I could share my experience of visiting my local hospital last Friday night and early Saturday morning. It is a 466-bed hospital, but only 12 beds were vacant in the entire place, and the bed managers told me that that was a particularly good situation. Seven of those beds happened to be in gynaecology. In order for the A and E department to meet the targets imposed on it by the Government, patients are shipped around from one bed to another, taking infection with them, until they eventually get to the right place. That is one of the causes of the problem, and it is the direct responsibility of the Government and their targets.
Miss Johnson: The reason why we are tackling these issues is that we were left with an NHS starved of investment—[Interruption.] That is a well-known fact, frankly. We inherited an NHS where many people were waiting more than 18 months; now, we have got waiting times down so that nobody waits more than nine months, and most people wait four or five months—
Mr. Blunt: Will the Minister give way?
Soon, people will wait only 18 weeks from start to finish.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The Minister has indicated that, at this point, she is not willing to give way.
Miss Johnson:
To make progress, I should like to move on to consider the information that we have.
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It shows a slight but not dramatic increase in MRSA in the past three years. However, we are not alone in experiencing such an increase—the same problem has occurred in Austria, Belgium, Germany and Ireland since 1999. We estimate that MRSA affects approximately 0.3 per cent. of patients or three in every 1,000. Of course, that is three too many in every 1,000 and we need to reduce that figure. However, the Opposition should be careful, in their delight in attacking the NHS, not to exaggerate a serious problem to the extent of unduly alarming patients and making them afraid to go into hospital to seek the treatment that they need.
Dr. Starkey : Is not my hon. Friend the Minister worried about Conservative Members' level of scientific understanding? They cannot understand the difference between hospital-acquired infections as a group and MRSA. That led to their suggesting that the figure that you—[Hon. Members: "You?"] Pardon me, Madam Deputy Speaker. They suggested that the figure that my hon. Friend gave for the prevalence of MRSA in hospital patients was different from that that the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) cited for the total number of hospital-acquired infections. Obviously, the figures are different because they apply to different things. How can one have confidence in Conservative Members' arguments when they demonstrate that they have not the faintest understanding of what they are talking about?
Miss Johnson: As usual, my hon. Friend makes her point eloquently. We should be worried—I am sure that the country is concerned—about the prospect of such an Opposition ever becoming a Government.
We know that the infections can be prevented, we are acting on that important safety issue and we are committed to being completely open with the public about it.
Miss Johnson: We have published the extent of MRSA infections in every NHS trust since 2001 on the Department of Health website. The Opposition never published such figures when they were in power. I do not know what the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham finds laughable.
Mr. Ivan Henderson (Harwich) (Lab): My hon. Friend mentions openness. Conservative Members have cited what people in the NHS said, but does she remember that, in the old days, when the Tories were in control, they gagged people and prevented them from revealing problems? Whistleblowers were disciplined for speaking out. Is not it a good thing that they can say what they think under this Government?
Miss Johnson: Indeed. My hon. Friend brings me to an important part of what I wish to say in response to the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham. He made several comments about the National Audit Office survey and the results of the infection control team survey.
The NAO survey was conducted in July 2003. It asked teams to report on a period that stretched back to 2000. Even over three years, the figures showed that almost
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nine out of 10 teams reported that they encountered none of the problems of having their recommendations rejected or discouraged by chief executives. I shall consider the rest of the findings shortly because I have some interesting facts, which I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will not like to hear.
In addition, a similar proportion of trusts reported that they had closed parts of hospitals to deal with outbreaks. None of the detailed returns from the 12 per cent. that reported that they had raised the issue but not closed wards mentioned MRSA. Not a single one mentioned it. Most outbreaks were of diarrhoea and vomiting and other similar, admittedly serious, infectious conditions. They were not MRSA. The Opposition's entire case is predicated on one report and finding. It is absolutely wrong.
Kali Mountford: I confirm to hon. Members the facts of my hon. Friend's case. When an outbreak of vomiting and diarrhoea recently occurred in Huddersfield royal infirmary, it was simple for people to report to the chief executive, who acted swiftly and kept me informed. Wards were closed when appropriate, and patients were treated quickly when necessary and sent home to avoid further infecting vulnerable patients. In other words, the tools needed to do the job were in place. Is not it important to continue that approach and ignore Opposition giggling?
Miss Johnson: My hon. Friend is so right. Of course, the Opposition complain if any operation is cancelled for whatever reason. They are trying, as usual, to have their cake and eat it.
Our plans to reduce infection rates were set out in "Winning Ways", which was published in December 2003, before any of the work that we have done, and that is now being used, albeit it did not mention MRSA in a single case. "Towards cleaner hospitals and lower rates of infection" was published last July. We are actively implementing those programmes and building on the work already under way.
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