| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Davidson: I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the need to reform the CAP. What is the amount he believes that the European Union should allocate to the CAP?
Mr. Tyler: If the hon. Gentleman has farmers in his constituency, he will know that we are in a difficult transition period. I think that he will agree that change should have taken place under the previous Conservative Government.
Mr. Davidson: What is the figure?
Mr. Tyler:
I am trying to explain the situation to the hon. Gentleman because I am not sure how many farmers he has in his constituency. The process of transition is, by its nature, expensive—change is always expensive—so I do not expect a reduction to below 40 per cent. of the total EU budget during the transition period. However, we should certainly aim for such a figure after that period and thereafter I hope that we will see real improvements. I hope that that satisfies the hon. Gentleman. I also hope that he will note that the most important thing for both farmers and consumers is not the CAP, but tackling the problems caused by middlemen in the food process. Although it would be
7 Mar 2005 : Column 1323
inappropriate to discuss that matter at length today, the processors and the retailers are creaming off money that should go to the original producers.
Mr. Davidson: I am just a simple country boy, so I do not understand from that long answer the amount that the Liberals want spent on the CAP. Can he just give me a figure?
Mr. Tyler: I do not think that the hon. Gentleman is listening. I explained carefully that the process of transition—it should have started much earlier and it is unfortunate that it did not happen under the previous Government—will be expensive. I cited a reduction to about 40 per cent. of the total budget by the end of the process and hope that it will come down further after that. I hope that that satisfies the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Gummer: Is it not noticeable that Labour Members are extremely good at attacking the common agricultural policy without recognising the important changes that have taken place, the effect that those will have on farmers and the need for farmers to have a reasonable time to adjust to them? At the same time, those people expect to have farmers' votes.
Mr. Tyler: I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman, who speaks as a former Minister. The transition process is not easy. He has a big agricultural community in his constituency, as do I, so he will agree that if the process had been started earlier—I am not blaming him and his Government for that—things might have been easier, especially given what has happened over the past 10 years with bovine spongiform encephalopathy and foot and mouth. The livestock industry has suffered a lot of blows, although that might not worry him as much as me. The change process is not painless and will take time.
The European regional development fund to which I was referring is, frankly, small beer alongside the CAP. Only a small improvement to the application of the CAP would be effective, which is why those of us who represent objective 1 areas are worried, nay apprehensive, about the way in which the Chancellor seems to be targeting the development and structural funds rather than the CAP. We are far from convinced that the Government have either identified the right targets for reform and retrenchment, or secured the necessary allies to achieve that.
Anyone who doubts the wisdom of carefully extending the application of qualified majority voting should take a hard look at the way in which only a few Governments of member states have managed to stymie radical reform of the CAP and the common fisheries policy with the use of their vetoes. Surely such reform requires a consensual approach rather than unanimity.
Budgetary discipline is the subject of another of the papers before us. To a non-accountant, the paper seems to be dangerously complacent, and that was reflected by the exchanges between the Conservative and Labour Front-Bench spokesmen. The mechanisms might seem to be "an efficient tool" to those in Brussels, but the outcomes suggest otherwise. As hon. Members have
7 Mar 2005 : Column 1324
said, the European Court of Auditors has refused to sign off the EU accounts for the 10th year. That is outrageous, as the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) has reminded us several times this afternoon.
Surely the UK Government should concentrate on achieving an effective audit trail in all member states for all EU funds. Until then, it might be more reasonable to insist on a freeze on the budget as a share of gross domestic product in the Union. That would allow a real increase, but only in line with the growth of the EU economy. I find it difficult to understand why that explicit statement—using both a carrot and stick—is not deployed more effectively by European countries that are worried about the lack of effective budgetary discipline. It should surely be said openly—it should have been said in the famous letter of 2003—that until the EU gets a firm grip on its budgetary disciplines, there should be no question of an increase in overall expenditure.
Mr. David Heathcoat-Amory (Wells) (Con): If the hon. Gentleman is now so keen on budgetary discipline, why was it that no Liberal Democrats or their allies tabled or supported amendments to the European Convention to improve the scrutiny process or to strengthen budgetary discipline in the European constitution?
Mr. Tyler: I cannot answer that question because I do not know the details. I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that my colleagues on the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee have been making a specific proposal to link any consideration of any increase in the overall budget to the issue that is before us. That is specific within the European Parliament. I cannot speak for the Convention, but the European Parliament has the same sort of responsibility for the scrutiny of the budget, but perhaps not to the same degree as we in this place in terms of the UK budget, and perhaps not as much as the right hon. Gentleman and I would like, and initiatives have been taken. I agree entirely that fraud continues to disfigure the reputation of the EU.
The lack of clear management accounts is clearly an obstacle to the scrutiny of spending. It seems odd that there is not a specific linkage in the Government's proposal, and in the motion, between that and the issue of the overall budget.
I move on briefly to the issue of a general correction mechanism and the own resources system. The two papers, and the Government's response to them, raise fewer issues of principle, at least to my mind, but as always, the devil may be in the detail. The Minister may be able to tell us that there are still some difficulties. I think that there is unanimity across the House that we must stand firm. That is why I find it unfortunate that the amendment to which the Welsh nationalists have put their names would seem to undermine that position. I hope that the amendment will not be carried.
Enlargement has been mentioned several times. The Government, and the Conservative Government before them, have been enthusiastic about enlargement. I have always believed that the reinforcement of budgetary control should have preceded the expansion to 25 rather than followed it. Deepening should have been given precedence over widening. However, we have to live with the world that we now have.
7 Mar 2005 : Column 1325
The Commission is now saying that the larger budget that it is seeking is necessary to consolidate and continue the process of enlargement and to achieve better cohesion with the economies of the new entrants. We have yet to see how it can persuade other Governments, including our own, that it has not wished the end without supporting the means. As has been said, the Lisbon agenda is also extremely relevant.
The core issue should not be only "How much?" but "What for?" We have the famous 2003 letter to the then President of the Commission to which there were six signatories, including the UK Government. It was remarkable in that it made no direct reference to CAP reform. It assumed that the Franco-German deal was a done deal and could not be reopened. That was a grave mistake. It was extraordinary that it did not make any direct reference to better financial management and audit supervision.
This morning, in The Guardian, Lord Hattersley quoted Mr. Gladstone, whom I suppose I could call my right hon. Friend. He made a sensible and sane statement some 120 years when he said:
To us, the Chancellor seems all too anxious to carve up the most cost-effective EU regional programme while failing to insist on CAP pruning and meaningful audit tracking of waste. We just wish that he would believe more in the EU and less in his own omniscience.
5.44 pm
| Next Section | Index | Home Page |