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Chris McCafferty accordingly presented a Bill to make it an offence for employers and certain other persons to destroy or control the identification documents of another person in specified circumstances; to amend the Diplomatic Privileges Act 1964 and the Consular Relations Act 1968 so as to make diplomatic and consular staff and their households liable in relation to that offence; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the First time; and ordered to be read a Second time on Friday 18 March, and to be printed [Bill 82].
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ESTIMATES DAY
[2nd Allotted Day—1st Part]
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES, 2004–05
Future of the BBC
[Relevant documents: First Report from the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, Session 2004–05, HC 82-I and -II, on A Public BBC; The Government's response thereto, Cm 6474; The Department for Culture, Media and Sport Green Paper, Review of the BBC's Royal Charter; and The Department for Culture, Media and Sport Annual Report 2004, Cm 6220.]
Motion made, and Question proposed,
Department for Culture, Media and Sport
That, for the year ending with 31st March 2005, for expenditure by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport—
(2) a further sum, not exceeding £65,461,000, be granted to Her Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund to meet the costs as so set out, and
12.45 pm
Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): I am grateful for the opportunity to open this debate on the BBC and the report by the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport that was published on 16 December. I pay tribute to my colleagues on the Committee of all parties for the work that they have done, which has led to our producing a unanimous and consensual report. I also pay tribute to the Clerks and their staff for the work that they have done not only on the report but for the Committee throughout the year.
We have a plethora of documents to consider when debating the BBC. We have the Select Committee report and the Secretary of State's reply to it. I am grateful that she published the reply at the same time as the Green Paper, which we are also considering. We can consider the documentation and the inquiries that are relevant to the charter review that have been conducted by the Office of Communications. We also have the documents from Lord Burns and the various inquiries conducted by Tim Gardam, Philip Graf and Professor Barwise. Indeed, it is impossible to count the number of trees that have died during the process of the charter review. I shall address the issues in a moment, but one argument for not having a charter review could be the ruinous impact that producing such documentation has on the landscape.
I thank the Secretary of State not only for publishing her reply to the Committee report at the same time as her Green Paper last week, but because that Green Paper acknowledges the work of the Committee and, in whole or in part, accepts several of our recommendations, although not all of them, as I shall have cause to point out. I know that the United Kingdom Film Council is especially grateful that she accepted our recommendation on a film investment strategy.
The background to both our report and charter renewal is the dramatic change in the audiovisual environment since the National Heritage Committee,
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which I chaired at the time, produced its report that led to the present 10-year charter and the continuation of the licence fee as the method of funding the BBC. It is remarkable that in 1998 not one single house in this country had digital television—all television signals were analogue—yet today more than half of all households have it. It is partly thanks to initiatives taken by Sky and the hugely imaginative launch of Freeview that the number of houses with digital television will increase almost exponentially. About 5 million houses have Freeview boxes at present, and it is thought that by the end of the year there may be 10 million. That will, among other things, lead us forward to the practicability of digital switch-off.
The fact that we now have digital TV channels and, as the Secretary of State said in her statement last week, there are more than 400 television channels with more to come, has had a dramatic effect on the audience for the old analogue channels, which are also available on digital television. In 1993, BBC1 and what is now ITV1 had three quarters of the entire television audience in this country. The latest figures show that that three quarters has fallen to less than half, and figures published in the last few days show that ITV is continuing to lose its audience. In his memoirs, Greg Dyke interestingly points out that the only reason that BBC1 remains the channel with the largest number of viewers is not because it is doing well, but because ITV1 is doing even worse.
We have also moved forward from a situation in which, ever since the foundation of the British Broadcasting Company in 1922, we have been used, as radio and television channels have increased, to every viewer having access to every channel. That is no longer the case and it will never be the case again.
David Cairns (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): A significant number of people in the country, including those in Inverkip in my constituency, cannot receive an analogue signal and have never been able to do so, and are thus forced to buy cable, if it is available, or satellite dishes. Given that the analogue switchover in Scotland will happen after the charter is renewed, will my right hon. Friend support my call for a simple principle to be included in the new charter—that if people cannot receive a television signal they should not have to pay the licence fee?
Sir Gerald Kaufman: I do not think that I would go that far, much as I sympathise with my hon. Friend and his constituents. One of the things to which we refer in our report is the need to launch and expand the Freesat enterprise, so that, without subscribing to Sky, for those who do not want to do so, it will nevertheless be possible for most people to obtain digital TV, in the same way as many people—up to 10 million, it is thought—will be able to do through Freeview. I see that my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is in his place and I know of the difficulties in his constituency, but my point was reinforcing what I said earlier: the era when everybody had access to everything is gone permanently. It will never return.
What is more, as the Select Committee found in its inquiries both in this country and abroad, and as the Green Paper points out, the situation to which we have been used ever since 1922—of people sitting in front of
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a radio or TV set and accepting, having to make do, with what is offered by those stations—is over, too. Through Sky Plus, HomeChoice and developments in the United States, people will be able to construct their own viewing in their own time, with their own choice, in a way that was never dreamed of even when the last charter review was taking place.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): My right hon. Friend was saying that we lived in a time when every BBC service was available to everyone. That was theoretically true, although as my hon. Friend the Member for Greenock and Inverclyde (David Cairns) pointed out it is not entirely true in his constituency. In fact, when BBC2 first broadcast, large parts of the country were unable to receive it. Precisely the same parts of the country still cannot receive Freeview, so there is considerable anger in constituencies such as mine. People say that as they pay the same licence fee they should get exactly the same deal. Can my right hon. Friend see any way to insert in the charter a greater impetus for the BBC to ensure that it provides the same deal to every constituency in the land?
Sir Gerald Kaufman: When BBC2 was launched nobody could get it, because it broke down on the opening night. The production of "Kiss Me, Kate", the main programme on the opening night and to which I was greatly looking forward to watching, had to be postponed until the next night. The point that my hon. Friend makes, like the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Greenock and Inverclyde (David Cairns) a moment ago, is very valid indeed. If we are to have a new BBC charter, and if it is to be based on universal access, I hope that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will pay careful heed to those of my hon. Friends who live in areas that do not have the access available to people such as my constituents in Gorton who live in big cities. The interventions of my hon. Friends make the interesting point that viewers or would-be viewers consider access to programmes and channels as their right. That is appropriate.
We are moving towards a situation in which, despite the rather obtuse recommendations in Professor Barwise's report on digital TV, more and more channels are niche channels. Even BBC1—with less than a quarter of the viewers still the biggest channel in the country—is becoming a niche channel, too. Special interest channels are important; for example, Artsworld and Performance, which I understand has difficulties—I hope they can be solved. As the Green Paper points out, there is little of interest on either BBC1 or BBC2 before 7 pm; the arts are almost gone from BBC1 and "Panorama" has been banished to late on Sunday evenings.
It is important to note that people go on about the BBC as though it had been carried down from Sinai by Moses on tablets of stone and there is something holy about it that applies to no other broadcasting organisation. In the end though, as Alfred Hitchcock said to Ingrid Bergman when she was complaining about the interpretation of her role, "It's only a movie, Ingrid". In the same way, in the end, the BBC is only a
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broadcasting organisation—very important though broadcasting organisations are, and particularly important as the BBC is.
Although it emerges from the material that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has published that the idea of public service broadcasting originated in the United States, nevertheless the embodiment of public service broadcasting is the BBC. We would not use that phrase as we do if the BBC did not exist. When one listens to excellent broadcasting organisations in other parts of the world—for example, CBC in Canada—one can hear or see the influence of the BBC and Lord Reith on what was, when it was developed in the United States, first in radio and then in television, simply a mechanism for selling goods and attracting listeners and viewers through programmes that would get people to listen to or watch the commercials.
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