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John McDonnell: I can understand the traditional allegations that the BBC is pro-Labour, left wing, and all the rest of it, but is the hon. Gentleman really suggesting that John Humphrys and others are supporters of Sinn Fein or the IRA? Does he think that the BBC is some sort of cell of the IRA army council? That would be a bizarre allegation.
Mr. Robathan:
I do not think that I even began to suggest that. My point is that although John Humphrys
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would give people like the hon. Gentleman a hard ride—he would certainly do that to a Minister or a shadow Minister—he did not do the same for Martin McGuinness.
John McDonnell: Will the hon. Gentleman give way again on that point?
John McDonnell: What does the hon. Gentleman conclude from that? Is John Humphrys in some way biased towards Sinn Fein?
Mr. Robathan: I conclude that John Humphrys might be worried about giving the IRA too hard a time. He certainly did not give Martin McGuinness the reasonably hard time that he should have given him.
I believe that the BBC no longer provides the public service broadcasting that it should. Far too much, it follows the whims and ideas of arrogant, self-important and unaccountable broadcasters. Some are very good, and many programmes are also very good, but I want the BBC to uphold Reith's principles much more.
Like my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford, I believe that there is a role for public service broadcasting, but we need to consider how it is delivered.
Mr. Evans: My hon. Friend is concentrating on the problems with the BBC, and wants it to do more in respect of public broadcasting. However, Friday is red nose day. Does he accept that the BBC has played a vital role for many years in raising millions of pounds for charity? That money goes to lots of good causes, especially ones that help young people.
Mr. Robathan: I am always delighted and thrilled, of course, when people give money to charity, by whatever means.
I turn now to the licence fee, which I consider to be a wholly outdated tax. I resent it, as do a great many others. It is extraordinary and illogical that the Government should force all citizens with a television to pay a licence fee even if they never watch the BBC, for which that licence fee money pays. As my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford said, it is now possible to watch television on a mobile telephone. The licence fee has been left behind by technology, as much as anything else, but it has also outlived its usefulness. I believe that it contributes to the BBC's bloated sense of self-satisfaction. We need to move on and lose some of that bloated organisation.
Finally, I was asked whether I thought that the BBC was made up of dangerous left-wing radicals. When it comes to bias, it is pretty extraordinary that, some years ago, the Government got away with appointing Gavyn Davis as chairman. He has now gone, of course, but it is alleged that he wept at Labour headquarters when Neil Kinnock lost the 1992 general election. His wife is still an adviser to the Chancellor.
The BBC also got away with appointing Greg Dyke, a Labour donor, as director-general. He has many attributes, but he too has moved on. In addition, the Government—and it is no good suggesting that it was
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not their decision—also got away with appointing a former card-holding member of the Labour party as its political editor. That suggests that there is not as much balance as one might like.
People may say that the Conservative party in government was just as bad, but it was not.
Chris Bryant: What about Sir Christopher Bland?
John McDonnell: Or Marmaduke Hussey?
Mr. Robathan: It is true that Sir Christopher Bland was once a member of the Conservative party, although I do not know whether that is still the case. However, John Birt was appointed BBC director-general when those gentlemen were on watch. That shows the sort of balance that is required, but both have now moved on.
I said that I would speak in lay terms about what a lot of people feel about the BBC, which should not be simply dismissed. Earlier, I went to my office for a pre-arranged meeting, and found on my desk a pile of correspondence. The top letter was from a 70-year-old constituent, a carer in Lutterworth, and I am pretty sure that she is not a member of the Tory party. There are not many in my area, and I know most of them. Her husband is blind and her daughter is deaf, and she cares for both of them. I was amazed at her prescience in writing to me yesterday, and I should like to read some of her letter to the House. She wrote:
"With their lies, they are destroying this country of ours. They stoop at nothing. The BBC is completely controlled by Labour. It's like everything comes straight out of No. 10 which we hear on the news. We have to pay a licence fee and the BBC should be fair. We seldom watch BBC for news."
Of course, that is just one person's view. However, I assure the House that many people in the country feel the same way.
3.7 pm
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan), who has spent the past 16 minutes getting things off his chest. I hope that the therapy has been successful—mine is yet to come. He mentioned dangerous left-wing radicals—
Chris Bryant: I used to work at the BBC, but it is not often that I am referred to in those terms.
It is dangerous when politicians spend too much time obsessing about the party political affiliations of journalists. It is important that journalists who use the written word—scribblers, so to speak—and those who work in television and radio should be free to have political views of their own. The political correspondent for ITN, for instance, is a former member of the Conservative party. I applaud his professionalism in the conduct of his work. He is a very good broadcaster, and it is best to leave matters of political allegiance to one side.
The hon. Member for Blaby also referred to Sir Christopher Bland, for whom I used to write speeches. Having been a member of the Conservative party, he
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was first appointed to the post of chair of the BBC governors by the previous Conservative Government. However, it is important to recall that the Labour Government, on coming to power in 1997, reappointed him for a second term.
Mr. Robathan: I concede that the hon. Gentleman is knowledgeable and thoughtful on these matters. However, I believe that the BBC lacks balance, especially given the appointments that I mentioned earlier.
Chris Bryant: The appointment of Gavyn Davis as chairman of the BBC was not a wise move, for some of the reasons outlined by the hon. Gentleman. I thought that he would always have to try to take the side of the BBC, even if that was wrong. There is always a difficulty in appointing someone with a political affiliation to the chairmanship of the BBC, but that does not mean that a chairman must never have had any political views—which seemed to be the way in which the hon. Gentleman was moving—nor do I believe that the BBC should appoint people to senior positions as journalists on the basis of their having or not having political affiliations, or because other people in the organisation have political affiliations that need to be mathematically evened up. It is important that journalists be appointed on merit and nothing else.
I shall return to the main substance of the debate. We are considering the next 10 years of the BBC. The Government have been entirely right in advocating support for the licence fee. Unlike my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman), I support the licence fee. Elements of it are regressive, because everyone must pay it, so it falls as a greater percentage of income on the poorest people, but it is a good principle because it enables everyone in the country, whether rich or poor, to watch the best programming. That could not be achieved without a universal licence fee, as can be seen in other countries that do not have the same system of funding and rely more on subscription services for providing the best programming.
I believe that although the licence fee may have a regressive tinge, it is important in ensuring—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Blaby has incited the hon. Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford (Mr. Whittingdale) to further hyperventilation. His therapy has clearly not finished.
Mr. Whittingdale: I merely question how the hon. Gentleman can possibly say that a flat rate tax of £121, payable by everyone, with no means-tested assistance, has only a tinge of regression.
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