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Keith Vaz: Can my right hon. Friend also answer my question about the commission's location? Will she consider Leicester as a possible venue?
Jacqui Smith: My hon. Friend wins today's prize for trying very hard on behalf of his constituency. I assure him that I will consider Leicester—at the same time as considering Redditch.
As for the important issue of the significance of the commission for business, Members are right: the CBI has welcomed the establishment of a one-stop shop where all the business expertise will be in one place. I take particularly seriously the need to ensure that small and medium-sized businesses can benefit from that. The opportunity to build up regional support and to use intermediaries is especially important.
Costs have been mentioned. I believe that savings will result from the combination of administration, property and other backroom services, but those savings must be ploughed back into front-line services. I therefore consider that £70 million—which builds on the £43.5 million currently being spent on the commission—is appropriate, given the commission's new responsibilities.
My hon. and learned Friend the Member for Redcar and others rightly spoke of the importance of the commission's work on human rights. Human rights are about more than compliance, and the commission will enable us to take them out of the courtroom and on to the front line of public service delivery. That applies particularly to the promotion of public awareness, and to encouraging public authorities to comply with their obligations to undertake inquiries about human rights problem areas, give advice and intervene in cases. The commission must add value, however. My hon. and learned Friend mentioned additional enforcement powers, which we do not think would add value in the current circumstances. There is already a well-understood and well-used process for challenging alleged breaches of convention rights in courts and at tribunals. Nevertheless, like my hon. and learned Friend, I have no doubt that the commission will make a significant difference.
In the limited time that remains, I want to deal with what has been said about the development of harmonised legislation. It is because we recognise the need to consider our discrimination legislation in detail that we have set up not just the equalities review but the discrimination law review. That will enable us to create a simpler, fairer legal framework with a view to introducing a single equality Bill in due course. I know that many Members, especially my hon. Friends, will welcome that. Certainly the case was made strongly by my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey. However, I do not think that we should delay this Bill for that purpose.
Representatives of the new strands, in particular, think it important for us to make progress in giving them institutional support for the first time. The equalities review will enable the commission to begin its work with a proper understanding of where equalities persist, and the ability to make a real difference.
The Bill marks a step along the journey towards a prosperous and fair society. It is, I believe, a better Bill than it was when we began to plan and consult on it. Its
5 Apr 2005 : Column 1362
scope is wider, its powers are stronger and it is more effective and relevant. It is a good Bill, and I commend it to the House.
Bill accordingly read a Second time.
MENTAL CAPACITY BILL (PROGRAMME) (NO. 4)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 83A(6) (Programme Motions),
That the following proceedings shall apply to the Mental Capacity Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 11th October 2004, as varied by the Orders of 12th October 2004 and 14th December 2004:
Consideration of Lords Amendments
1. Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall be completed at this day's sitting and shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.
2. Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any further question being put.
3. The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.—[James Purnell.]
The House divided: Ayes 277, Noes 97.
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Adams, Irene (Paisley N)
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Bob (Cov'try NE)
Allen, Graham
Anderson, rh Donald (Swansea E)
Armstrong, rh Ms Hilary
Bailey, Adrian
Baird, Vera
Banks, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Barron, rh Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Benn, rh Hilary
Bennett, Andrew
Benton, Joe (Bootle)
Berry, Roger
Betts, Clive
Blears, Ms Hazel
Blizzard, Bob
Bradley, rh Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Browne, Desmond
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, Andy
Byers, rh Stephen
Byrne, Liam (B'ham Hodge H)
Cairns, David
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Casale, Roger
Caton, Martin
Cawsey, Ian (Brigg)
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Mrs Helen (Peterborough)
Clarke, rh Tom (Coatbridge & Chryston)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Coffey, Ms Ann
Cohen, Harry
Colman, Tony
Connarty, Michael
Cook, rh Robin (Livingston)
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Corston, rh Jean
Cousins, Jim
Cranston, Ross
Crausby, David
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Ann (Keighley)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Jim (Coventry S)
Cunningham, Tony (Workington)
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Dalyell, Tam
David, Wayne
Davidson, Ian
Davies, rh Denzil (Llanelli)
Dawson, Hilton
Denham, rh John
Dhanda, Parmjit
Dismore, Andrew
Dobbin, Jim (Heywood)
Donohoe, Brian H.
Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim (Lewisham W)
Drown, Ms Julia
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff (Barnsley E)
Etherington, Bill
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul (Newport W)
Follett, Barbara
Foster, rh Derek
Foulkes, rh George
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike (Ilford S)
Gardiner, Barry
George, rh Bruce (Walsall S)
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, Paul
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Hain, rh Peter
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hamilton, David (Midlothian)
Hanson, David
Harris, Tom (Glasgow Cathcart)
Havard, Dai (MerthyrTydfil & Rhymney)
Healey, John
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N)
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hinchliffe, David
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hood, Jimmy (Clydesdale)
Hoon, rh Geoffrey
Hope, Phil (Corby)
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Alan (Newport E)
Howarth, George (Knowsley N & Sefton E)
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hughes, rh Beverley (Stretford & Urmston)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Hume, John (Foyle)
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Eric
Ingram, rh Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda (Hampstead & Highgate)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jamieson, David
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Kevan (N Durham)
Jones, Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Joyce, Eric (Falkirk W)
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Alan (Feltham)
Keen, Ann (Brentford)
Khabra, Piara S.
Kilfoyle, Peter
Knight, Jim (S Dorset)
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, David
Laxton, Bob (Derby N)
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom (High Peak)
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Liddell, rh Mrs Helen
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Lucas, Ian (Wrexham)
McAvoy, rh Thomas
McCabe, Stephen
McCartney, rh Ian
MacDonald, Calum
McDonnell, John
MacDougall, John
McFall, rh John
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, Denis
McWilliam, John
Mahmood, Khalid
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mann, John (Bassetlaw)
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marshall, David (Glasgow Shettleston)
Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Martlew, Eric
Meacher, rh Michael
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby)
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moonie, Dr. Lewis
Moran, Margaret
Morgan, Julie
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Munn, Ms Meg
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
O'Hara, Edward
Olner, Bill
O'Neill, Martin
Organ, Diana
Osborne, Sandra (Ayr)
Pearson, Ian
Picking, Anne
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter (Burnley)
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pope, Greg (Hyndburn)
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prescott, rh John
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Ken
Purnell, James
Quin, rh Joyce
Rapson, Syd (Portsmouth N)
Raynsford, rh Nick
Reed, Andy (Loughborough)
Robertson, John (Glasgow Anniesland)
Robinson, Geoffrey (Coventry NW)
Rooney, Terry
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Roy, Frank (Motherwell)
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Salter, Martin
Sawford, Phil
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Short, rh Clare
Simon, Siôn (B'ham Erdington)
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, rh Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, rh Chris (Islington S & Finsbury)
Smith, rh Jacqui (Redditch)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Soley, Clive
Southworth, Helen
Squire, Rachel
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Steinberg, Gerry
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Tami, Mark (Alyn)
Taylor, rh Ann (Dewsbury)
Taylor, Dari (Stockton S)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Taylor, Dr. Richard (Wyre F)
Thomas, Gareth (Harrow W)
Timms, Stephen
Touhig, Don (Islwyn)
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Dr. Desmond (Brighton Kemptown)
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Tynan, Bill (Hamilton S)
Vaz, Keith (Leicester E)
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Ms Joan
Wareing, Robert N.
Watson, Tom
Watts, David
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Williams, Betty (Conwy)
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wood, Mike (Batley)
Woodward, Shaun
Worthington, Tony
Wright, Anthony D. (Gt Yarmouth)
Wright, David (Telford)
Wright, Iain (Hartlepool)
Wright, Tony (Cannock)
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Ayes:
Gillian Merron and
Mr. John Heppell
NOES
Allan, Richard
Amess, David
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Bellingham, Henry
Bercow, John
Boswell, Tim
Brady, Graham
Brazier, Julian
Burnside, David
Burstow, Paul
Carmichael, Alistair
Cash, William
Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet)
Clarke, rh Kenneth (Rushcliffe)
Conway, Derek
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Davies, Quentin (Grantham & Stamford)
Djanogly, Jonathan
Donaldson, Jeffrey M.
Dorrell, rh Stephen
Duncan, Alan (Rutland)
Duncan Smith, rh Iain
Evans, Nigel
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Foster, Don (Bath)
Francois, Mark
Gale, Roger (N Thanet)
Garnier, Edward
Gill, Parmjit Singh
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian (Ashford)
Green, Matthew (Ludlow)
Greenway, John
Gummer, rh John
Hammond, Philip
Heath, David
Hendry, Charles
Hoban, Mark (Fareham)
Hogg, rh Douglas
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Hunter, Andrew
Jack, rh Michael
Jenkin, Bernard
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Key, Robert (Salisbury)
Knight, rh Greg (E Yorkshire)
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Leigh, Edward
Lewis, Dr. Julian (New Forest E)
Lidington, David
Lilley, rh Peter
Luff, Peter (M-Worcs)
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, Patrick
Malins, Humfrey
Mawhinney, rh Sir Brian
Mercer, Patrick
Mitchell, Andrew (Sutton Coldfield)
Moss, Malcolm
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Öpik, Lembit
Page, Richard
Paterson, Owen
Pickles, Eric
Redwood, rh John
Robathan, Andrew
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Sanders, Adrian
Selous, Andrew
Simpson, Keith (M-Norfolk)
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns & Kincardine)
Smyth, Rev. Martin (Belfast S)
Spring, Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Desmond
Syms, Robert
Taylor, Ian (Esher)
Taylor, John (Solihull)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Tyrie, Andrew
Viggers, Peter
Walter, Robert
Watkinson, Angela
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, David
Willis, Phil
Wilshire, David
Winterton, Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Sir Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Yeo, Tim (S Suffolk)
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. John Randall and
Mr. Eric Forth
Question accordingly agreed to.
5 Apr 2005 : Column 1365
Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you confirm that Standing Orders state that, after the House has debated and divided on my amendment (a), any Division on an amendment will be in the hands of the Crown unless there is any free time at the end of the allocated period?
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