Examination of Witnesses (Questions 798-799)
8 FEBRUARY 2005
MR LEVI
SMITH, MR
AFRIM MAHMUTI,
MR LASELLS
HAZEL AND
MR MOHAMMED
SALEH
Chairman: Can I first of all thank you
very much for coming to talk to the Committee. I am Barry Sheerman
and I am the Chairman of the Committee. All Committees in the
House of Commons are made up of 11 Members of Parliament and on
investigations like this we do not always get a full turn-out
but we got a very good turn-out this morning. If I go round we
have Jonathan Shaw, who is a Labour Member of Parliament; Helen
Jones, who is a Labour Member of Parliament; and so is David Chaytor;
I am a Labour Member of Parliament; John Greenway, who is a Conservative
Member of Parliament; Jeff Ennis, who is a Labour Member of Parliament;
and Paul Holmes, who is a Liberal Democrat. You have got all three
Parties but we reflect the majority in the House of Commons so
it has not been fiddled to have more Labour members; that is the
majority in the House of Commons. We have seven Labour, three
Conservative and one Liberal Democrat. The job of a committee
is really to look at what the Government spends its money on and
to see if it is good use for the money. A lot of it is about value
for money. A lot of the stuff that we do is really looking at
all the programmes that the Department for Education and Skills
does. Up until a few months ago the Prison Service and the Home
Office ran prison education and training but they have changed
the rules and it is now done by the Department for Education and
Skills, so it means that our group can have a look at you. We
have been doing our homework. We have been to Reading Prison,
the young offenders' institution there. We have been to the Isle
of Wight to look at three prisons on the Isle of Wight. We have
looked at a prison in Finland, a prison in Norway, and two or
three weeks ago three prisons in Vancouver because we wanted to
see what they do in different countries to see how they compared
with what we do. We will not ask you any personal questions. You
can put anything on the record but I am just telling you that
this session is on public record. Mary is the verbatim reporter
and this is very special because normally we take evidence in
select committee in Parliament in our usual room and it is all
very familiar to us and we have the verbatim reporters taking
every word down and all that, but on odd occasions we come out
and we have a public session elsewhere. So here we are, we are
in Feltham Young Offenders' Institution, not very far from where
I was born. I was born in Sunbury just down the road here. I was
reminding some of the members of the Committee when I was a kid
the only lively thing anywhere near here was the airport. If you
wanted to see a bit of life you had got to cross the road and
look round the airport.
Jonathan Shaw: Great days!
Mr Greenway: That was when the airport
had a Nissan hut!
Q798 Chairman: And as
Mick Jagger said to me as we went over there—! Just so we
get the spelling right, what is your name?
Mr Hazel: Lasells Hazel.
Q799 Chairman: I am not usually as bad
as this but I have got a terrible cold and I have just been interviewing
the Prime Minister for two and a half hours. My colleagues have
been here since nine o'clock but all the Committee chairmen every
six months interview Tony Blair for two and a half hours so we
were trying to give him a hard time. We are not going to give
you a hard time. We are looking at how good prison education and
skills are. Someone comes into prison, yes, they have been convicted
of something, and they are serving a period of time in prison
or in a young offenders' institution, and it is our view that
prison education and skills should equip people to come out of
here or come out of young offenders' institutions and take up
life pretty successfully in as good a job as they can possibly
get and to get settled into a normal way of life again. You are
the experts on what goes on here so most of the questions we are
going to ask you are about what you are offered here. If you do
not mind telling us one thing, it would be useful if you say roughly
the length of time that you are here. You do not have to but it
will enable us to make comparisons between what is available to
short-term offenders and longer term. You will wonder what the
hell this is all about. Do you want to say anything to us just
to break the ice? You are very welcome. Why did you volunteer
for this then, Levi?
Mr Smith: I did not volunteer
for it. My education teacher asked me to do it and I said yes
I will do it basically.
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