Examination of Witnesses (Questions 260-274)
11 JANUARY 2005
MS BRONWEN
JONES, MS
KELLY FREEMAN
AND MR
BOB RYDER
Q260 Mr Challen: That is for climate
change, and you are referring there to the Defra sponsored conference
that is taking place next month.
Ms Freeman: I am really talking
about the overall approach that we want to take to communication,
which includes all of our strategic priority areas. It is difficult
for me to comment specifically on a Bill that has not yet been
through the House, but in principle that is how we will be approaching
future communications.
Q261 Mr Challen: I am not really quite
so sure that I understand the answer. This Bill, for example,
coming from Defra, even if for some reason, heaven forbid, it
did not get Royal Assent, surely these are problems that exist
anyway, which Defra must have some kind of corporate strategy
of dealing with, on which the Bill clearly is a part, but is there
no plan B?
Ms Freeman: Let us not exclude
existing work because we do already fund ENCAMS. We run campaigns
that are dealing specifically with antisocial behaviour, so there
is a lot of activity that is happening currently, and what I am
saying is that the research that we have commissioned, that is
enabling us to take a more strategic approach to planning of communications,
will be used to plan future activity. I cannot comment specifically
on a Bill that has not been through the House, but in principle
we will be taking that research and using it.
Q262 Mr Challen: So when was that research
commissioned and when do you expect to hear the results and the
conclusions on that research?
Ms Freeman: Sorry, I am confusing
you, obviously. We have two pieces of research that area already
in the public domain. We have a piece of research called "carrots,
sticks and sermons", which we commissioned through Demos
Green Alliance and we have another piece of research which was
commissioned through the COI and undertaken by Andrew Darnton,
which is also in the public domain, and both of them have looked
very specifically at behaviour change campaigns and what are the
components that are likely to make behaviour change campaigns
work in the future, and it is those principles that we will be
applying to all of our future communications activities.
Q263 Mr Challen: So both of these research
documents are now available?
Ms Freeman: Yes, they are.
Q264 Mr Challen: I have a dim memory
of one of them from a previous inquiry.
Ms Freeman: We can provide you
with links obviously.
Ms Jones: Could I add that there
is a third document, which is the Tim Jackson research, which
we sponsored through the Sustainable Development Research network?
Q265 Mr Challen: Am I right in thinking
that you are still mulling over the conclusions of this research,
or has it now been put into practice and people are being given
instructions about how to go about it and budgets have been set?
Ms Freeman: Forgive me, it is
complicated. We have taken the findings; we have used it to inform
a piece of work that a company called Futerra have taken forward
on climate change. We are using climate change as the first example,
if you like, of using this research and those proposals have gone
to Ministers, so I cannot comment on that at the moment. But our
intention is to use that as a case study and then to plan all
of our communications in the future. Not just Defra but also the
wider NGO community is also buying into this piece of research.
It is complicated, I know that.
Q266 Mr Challen: It sounds it.
Ms Freeman: But we do know what
we are doing!
Q267 Mr Challen: Can we quickly turn
to the Landfill Tax Credit Scheme, which does seem to be facing
quite a problem for those groups that were receiving monies from
it, and I refer to Global Action Plan again—their evidence
was very convincing. They referred to scrabbling around to try
to find alternative streams of funding for initiatives and projects
which have a proven track record of success. They asserted that
the government's response to this was, "a fantastic game
of pass the parcel. The fact that DfES have taken a lead on this
particular issue has been a greater opportunity for Defra"—mixing
metaphors here—"to throw the ball to them and say,
`You run with it.'" What is your response to that?
Mr Ryder: Specifically on the
Landfill Tax Credit Scheme it is the case that there have been
changes to the regime that applied two or three years ago and
there was quite a diverse set of projects, some of which were
combined with match funding from the Environmental Action Fund,
for example, which no longer qualify, and Ministers decided that
the Landfill Tax Credit Scheme should be applied more strategically
to the meeting of landfill targets, and so there were some reforms
to that fund which came into effect from March or April 2003.
The thrust of effort then was directed through the waste implementation
programme, working through local authorities, specifically on
reducing flows to landfill. That has not ended the involvement
with voluntary community sector activity. In the Autumn just gone
further funding was announced for the voluntary sector in a package
of around £4 million, £3 million of which is a challenge
fund for voluntary sector groups to come forward with the projects
on waste, whether it should be recycling, reuse or composting,
and there is an application process in full swing now. The first
round of expression of interest has just closed and voluntary
groups can compete for funding from this new source. It is called
the Community Sector Support Programme.
Q268 Chairman: How did you communicate
that?
Mr Ryder: Obviously it was announced
by Ministers but also communicated to the kind of organisations
which have been involved hitherto in the Landfill Tax Credit scheme
in its earlier incarnation.
Q269 Mr Challen: What percentage of funding
does that represent of the previous amount that was available?
Mr Ryder: I would have to let
you have a note on that.
Q270 Mr Challen: Would it be fair to
say that it is quite a bit less?
Mr Ryder: I cannot say, I am afraid.
Q271 Chairman: Is education one of the
criteria for that funding?
Mr Ryder: Not specifically but
awareness and understanding of issues is a component of the criteria.
Q272 Chairman: So all the evidence that
we have received from groups who previously received funding to
help with educational initiatives of one kind or another related
to this, would they have met the criteria? Would they have been
communicated through the usual channels about eligibility for
this £5 million fund?
Mr Ryder: I cannot tell you in
detail about how the existence of the fund and the criteria were
communicated, but we can give you more details on that. It certainly
is the case that awareness and understanding components within
projects were certainly envisaged in the criteria being proposed.
Q273 Chairman: But education is not one
of the criteria?
Mr Ryder: As I understand it,
not specifically.
Q274 Mr Challen: Would it be fair to
conclude this session by saying that the funding crisis here is
another example really of how Education for Sustainable Development,
when pitched against sports or citizenship, education is very
much a Cinderella and is not a priority at all?
Mr Ryder: I can only really answer
for the funding streams that Defra itself is making available,
which can play some part in this picture. I mentioned the Environmental
Action Fund as one which has supported educational related projects
in the past, and will continue to support projects which help
to raise awareness and understanding that will also lead to behaviour
change. I think another important point is that the programmes
I have referred to there are relatively small and quite specific;
other programmes, which are much larger, which deal with specific
impacts on climate change or energy and waste, all of those contain
an element of awareness raising and the spreading of understanding,
not through formal education but through different types of campaign
and of partnership with different agencies and voluntary groups.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed.
In respect of that final series of questions, any information
you have about the amount of money that was going on education
projects previously compared to the percentage that is going on
them now would be very helpful for us to have, if you are able
to provide that information. Thank you very much for your evidence
today.
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