Examination of Witness (Questions 592-599)
19 JANUARY 2005
MR HADRIAN
SOUTHORN
Q592 Chairman: Mr Southorn, can I give
you a very warm welcome to our Sub-Committee's deliberations
this morning and thank you for coming along from the National
Association of School Governors. I know that you were here for
the previous session with our new DfES Minister. Can I say, at
the very outset, that we are really grateful to you for coming
along, because I think one of the issues which have been raised
in the evidence that we have had is the extent to which teachers,
schools, governors and schools inspectors understand and are able
to deliver on the whole issue of Education for Sustainable Development.
While we appreciate that we have not had any evidence, I think
I am right in saying this, from the Headteachers' Association,
and no formal recognition of it I think from the School Governors,
we felt it would be very important for someone like you to come
along and just tell it how it is from the coal-face really. Having
sat in and listened to the previous session, we will be really
interested if there is anything that you just want to state at
the very outset as to where you see it and where you are at and
your role in the National Association for School Governors?
Mr Southorn: Madam Chairman, I
am the General Secretary of the National Association for School
Governors, having been President in the past. I was interested
in what the new Minister had to say because, from what you were
saying, obviously he has got a lot to learn or find out before
you will be satisfied with his replies. I hope that the same will
not operate where I am concerned, but I will do my best. Because
I could not see anything specific that my organisation had done
with regard to sustainable development overall, I looked carefully
at the fact that in our magazine and in the schools in which we
operate obviously we do encourage the question of the new school
development system, that it is sustainable, particularly the healthy
food initiative. We have reached the situation now where in schools,
and I know in my own school, one of the schools, where I am Chair
of Governors, the machines which sold all the unhealthy foods
are now being removed and there is one which sells healthy food.
Also, there is a notice which says that chips will be served only
twice a week instead of the usual five days a week. On the question
of transport, through the magazine we do talk about transport
because a lot of schools are going in for particularly walking-trains,
to cut down on the number of schools which have pupils coming
by car. I must say that at the schools I am associated with, in
trying to get to a governors' meeting at the time when the school
is coming out, I have great difficulty in getting into the school
because of the number of parents' cars that are there. Because
we are not particularly involved to the extent of holding an investigation,
I took your question number four, in your `seeking views', in
response to the last inquiry, of going to embed SD more in the
school curriculum, I took a straw poll round six schools that
I know of in my area and I sent them the question and said "What
is the situation at the chalkface?" It was quite interesting
what came back. Geography was one of the issues spoken about.
It is in Key Stage Three that sustainability is introduced at
this stage and is mentioned as part of the programme of study,
but it is not very prescriptive. Environmental change and its
management are taught and the need to recognise the implications
of sustainable development for people, places and the environment.
It says: "but sustainability at AS and A level is a key theme
running through the course" and there is a paper which is
issued which focuses on sustainable development in a strong way.
At GCSE level, in geography, they talk about sustainable tourism,
rain-forests and also the management of industrial pollution.
Design and technology, in Key Stage Five, it was reckoned that
there had been the biggest improvement and raised awareness, as
they had built sustainable development in the specification,
and examination questions in the A2 module have used sustainable
development in their questioning. That is at least in design and
technology. With regard to the evidence, I have not seen anything
to tell me that the DfES have taken this forward; that was the
general feeling. In the note, you said: "DfES have made a
commitment," and at the chalkface it seems to have fallen
by the wayside slightly. In Key Stages Three and Four there has
been no real development. There is a mention with regard to recycling
and renewable materials, but "due to time restrictions it
is hard to concentrate on this particular area." The biggest
group is, of course, in the question of citizenship. As you well
know, in Year Seven, in citizenship, there are so many subjects
they have to deal with, such as human rights, law and justice,
political systems, conflict resolution, multiculturalism, equality
and diversity, the role of the media in society, then comes sustainable
development and then business and the economy. It was said that
"in citizenship lessons I talk discreetly, once a fortnight,
in Key Stages Three, Years Seven and Eight, and in Key Stage Four.
There is a curriculum in place for the 10 things which I have
addressed and now it is taught at each level. Sustainability development
is taught explicitly as one of these things. For sustainable development,
students begin by considering their personal impact on the world
around them," and `think local and look global' is the attitude
that is put forward.
Q593 Chairman: In terms of when Ofsted
come in and talk to governors, or in the everyday kind of governors'
meetings that you have, would you say that there is a focus on
sustainable development?
Mr Southorn: I would not say it
was focused all the time. As I have said, obviously, if you are
in a Victorian school and you are looking forward to the Government's
policy on new school development, one would look at the new school
development being in a sustainable development, whereby the materials
and the situation in which it set itself were conducive to that.
Obviously, when school governors look at some of the plans produced
by the authority they look carefully for open areas where there
are going to be trees and other things. Particularly in primary
schools, there is a greater emphasis on the pupils themselves
actually setting up their own gardens and ponds, so that as well
as helping the curriculum it gives them the idea. I would say
that, particularly in primary schools, and in secondary schools,
there has been a greater emphasis put on the fact that the authority
does recycling, even for primary pupils. When I was in a school
recently, a primary pupil saw another pupil throw away an aluminium
can in the waste-bin and the child said immediately "That
could be renewed and it should go as part of recycling rather
than being thrown away." It is getting through but I would
not say it was through the curriculum particularly, it is getting
through via the other stimuli which children have: television,
the newspapers, the local authority and their parents. There is
some focus being given in schools but, as you have pointed out
already, I suppose design and technology is the best area where
sustainability is definitely strong. When it comes to citizenship,
it is like Topsy, it has so many parts to it. One school in particular
teaches citizenship over 20 lessons, and two of those are specifically
on sustainable development.
Q594 Mr Ainsworth: It is interesting
to hear of life at the chalkface. What you have done actually
is confirm much of what we have been told already by other organisations
who view it from slightly further away than you do. Where are
you based?
Mr Southorn: I am based in Kent.
Q595 Mr Ainsworth: The evidence you have
given us is from Kent schools?
Mr Southorn: The evidence is from
schools within my area, yes, which I contacted on this issue.
Q596 Mr Ainsworth: Your organisation
is a national organisation, is it?
Mr Southorn: Yes, it is.
Q597 Mr Ainsworth: You have 45,000 members,
is that right?
Mr Southorn: About that, yes.
Q598 Mr Ainsworth: Do they come from
across the United Kingdom?
Mr Southorn: They come from across
England and Wales but not Scotland. Scotland has a different education
system.
Q599 Chairman: Do you meet regularly
with the DfES?
Mr Southorn: We meet regularly
with the DfES but not particularly on curriculum issues. We have
had meetings in the past with QCA about different disciplines,
but I do not recollect us having any discussion with the DfES
on the question of sustainable development within the umbrella
of citizenship, which, of course, is the last bit which was tacked
on to the curriculum. I think the problem is that, as you have
found already, sustainable development, whilst it is essential,
it is a question of priorities, both in teaching and in the school.
It is like ICT, whilst it might touch most areas, it does not
have a home of its own too strongly.
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