Examination of Witnesses (Questions 520-523)
2 MARCH 2005
MR TOM
OLIVER, MR
GRAHAM WYNNE,
MS STEPHANIE
HILBORNE AND
DR HILARY
ALLISON
Q520 Mr Drew: Is there
a contradiction here effectively between how you try and deal
with deprivation in rural areas, which with the best will in the
world is going to need resources coming from the centre, as against
what most of us want to see in rural Britain, which is a degree
of decentralization and bottom-up initiatives? Is this going to
be one of the problems with this organisation, that it is going
to be, as so often happens, schizophrenic; it is looking two ways
at the same time? What are your views on that, Tom?
Mr Oliver: I think
at the heart of the question is the dislocation between the national
voice, which one hopes will be independent, and the architecture
of delivery and for the reason I said earlier, we are not convinced
yet that there is an effective link between the regional delivery
by local authorities, by RDAs and by others, and the national
body. There are grounds for concern and I agree with you that
those need to be resolved. Having attended yesterday evening the
rural homelessness seminar chaired by Baroness Maddock, it is
very clear to me that solutions do lie at a local level and there
is a need for the CRC to be able to deliver that expertise and
guidance and leadership to that local level. I am also aware that
the RDAs made a good point, which is that they do not want to
be bypassed in the delivery of information and leadership between
a national organisation and a local organisation and for that
reason it is crucial that the RDAs in particular have a full commitment
to addressing social disadvantage. Perhaps I may just quickly
add an issue which you skirted over with the RDAs. I think it
is crucially important that where the relationship between farmers
and RDS is good it is retained. It is a very precious element
of what presently exists within the RDS and it is sometimes overlooked.
CPRE is one of the bodies involved in the framing of the new agri-environment
scheme. We are very pleased that the RDS has been so closely engaged
with the detail and we look forward to that being an important
part of the new agency.
Dr Allison: I want
to make one further observation about the CRC, not so much to
do with the issues that Tom raised but in the way that its purposes
are couched. Rural need is defined very strongly in terms of social
and economic need. That is important in terms of defining very
clearly the role of a small organisation, but I think one under-estimates
at one's peril the overlap between that and the functions of the
Integrated Agency, particularly in something like issues of health
and the link with the environment. I attended a great seminar
last week by the Countryside Recreation Network and there was
a fantastic amount of new evidence being presented about the importance
of green exercise and accessibility to spaces in rural and urban
areas in relation to people's health, both psychological and physical.
I think it would be a shame if this new Commission focused exclusively
on the social and economic dimension of rural need to the exclusion
of some of the environmental needs which are probably underplayed
in rural areas. We tend to think of rural areas being well endowed
with "the environment" when in fact there are some real
issues to do with green space and so on in rural areas. Those
are the kind of issues I hope the Commission would pick up through
close collaboration and working with the Integrated Agency.
Mr Wynne: There
is an interesting point of symmetry, which is that the duties
and purposes of the Integrated Agency specifically refer to social
and economic, which I think is appropriate, but the CRC simply
refers to sustainable development in the round. I think that is
slightly strange.
Q521 Chairman: Stephanie,
you undertook to let us have a note on the regional frameworks
and the regional linkages. One of the things I struggle with a
bit is how both the Integrated Agency and, more particularly,
the Commission are going to have a footprint on the ground. I
am not at all clear what the delivery agency is going to look
like. You have been saying to us about an independent agency that
has got to be locally based, it has got to be regionally based
and you made a point about involving local authorities and all
of that is right. I am not clear about where the Commission comes
in and where it gets its information. We described it yesterday
as a brain with no legs! That is a real problem, is it not?
Mr Oliver: It is
a real problem. It would be very helpful if that were considered
in greater detail before the Bill is published.
Q522 Chairman: Thank you
all very much.
Mr Oliver: Chairman,
I undertook on behalf of the ramblers to make a point.
Q523 Chairman: I have
seen them this morning. I hope it is the same point they have
made to me.
Mr Oliver: So do
I. They are very concerned that the resources allocated to the
Integrated Agency and the powers allow the Integrated Agency to
operate effectively in helping rights-of-way be opened up amongst
local authorities who are failing to do that. I think that is
a very important part of its effectiveness.
Ms Hilborne: I
agree. To end on resources is key.
Chairman: Thank you all
very much indeed.
| 
