Examination of Witnesses (Questions 560-564)
MR DAVID
PICKERING AND
MR PHIL
THOMAS
12 JULY 2004
Q560 Mr Drew: The ODPM?
Mr Pickering: Yes. We have got
quite a few masters at central government level and I think sometimes
there is confusion and maybe there is not the joined-up element
which we would like. The production of service plans perhaps is
an example, where one central government body will require it
and that may well cross over into other areas which another central
body deals with but they do not require a plan. As local authorities
we are producing these plans, which are fine in themselves, but
I do think that perhaps there is an area of overlap. In terms
of the relationships, certainly I think that the FSA value what
we do and, on the whole, we have found the FSA to be a good thing
really.
Q561 Mr Drew: If there was a statutory
underwriting of food information, in terms of the labelling, would
this be an area in which officers within trading standards would
have to specialise because of the level of knowledge which would
be required? Presumably, your officers are mainly generic at the
moment, they are not necessarily specialising in the food area,
but if there was a proper statutory code they would need to know
what they were doing to the nth degree?
Mr Pickering: It tends to vary
from authority to authority. I think that the way in which the
training of trading standards officers is moving now is towards
an idea of a person with certain skills and knowledge rather than
a person who knows everything about a particular piece of law.
I think what you will find is that those sorts of people who are
going out there doing it will have a sufficiently good base knowledge
to enforce the everyday information, but in terms of maybe the
more specialised stuff normally there will be an expert in each
department. Certainly there is a Food Safety Act officer nominated
by each authority.
Q562 Mr Drew: Can I be clear where the
dividing lines are between trading standards and environmental
health where you have got two-tier authorities?
Mr Pickering: In two-tier authorities,
I work for Buckinghamshire, so in Buckinghamshire there are four
or five local district councils where their environmental health
officers sit. They deal with food hygiene matters primarily. We
will deal with food standards. There is liaison between both levels
of government and we have regular bi-monthly meetings of the food
authorised officers from each local authority.
Q563 Mr Drew: Can I be clear. If a member
of the public was to go to either trading standards or environmental
health and really it impinged upon the other area, you would be
able to point them in the right direction? There must be some
difficulties, in the sense that hygiene is an area where labelling
could imply one thing but clearly the actual quality, the word
"fresh", for example, is an interesting one to try to
define as well, so really what I am saying is, is there going
to be a drawing together? You have answered previously that there
are going to be specialists but will there be a drawing together
between the field of environmental health in this particular domain
and trading standards?
Mr Pickering: I think probably
it would stay the same, to be honest. There is an understanding
of where our responsibility ends and that of environmental health
officers begins and vice versa. I think anything to do with labelling
they are more than happy to give to us, because by the nature
of it they are not involved in it on a day-to-day basis. They
know enough to think "That's wrong but perhaps I'm not quite
sure what advice I should give," just as if we saw a potential
hygiene issue we would contact them and say "I've just seen
something that doesn't look particularly good; is it of interest
to you?" On a day-to-basis there are quite good contacts,
and certainly, as an example, with food hazard warnings, these
are issued by the FSA if there is a particular problem with a
foodstuff and we co-ordinate on them to take appropriate action.
Certainly at the two-tier level, I am not speaking on behalf of
environmental health officers but they seem quite pleased to be
able to give the food labelling to us because they do not deal
with it. I think they would say they do not necessarily have the
skills or the time to deal with it. In unitary authorities sometimes
it is dealt with by environmental health officers.
Q564 Joan Ruddock: On a completely different
tack altogether, when the Government is looking at devising food
policy, to what extent might they ask you about how you think
"healthy eating" messages, for example, can be communicated?
Is that something with which you get involved?
Mr Thomas: We get consultations
through from the Food Standards Agency and I suppose, in many
respects, the Food Standards Agency is the link between Government
and local government in food enforcement. We will comment and
consult on issues which the Food Standards Agency brings to us.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed
for the evidence you have given us this afternoon. I think that
concludes our questions. It has been very helpful, as indeed was
your written evidence. Thank you.
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