House of Commons - Modernisation of the House of Commons

Select Committee on Modernisation of the House of Commons First Report

Formal minutes

Wednesday 15 December 2004

Members present:

Mr Peter Hain, in the Chair

Ann Coffey		Mr Peter Pike
Barbara Follett		Joan Ruddock
Mr Oliver Heald		Mr Martin Salter
Mr David Kidney		Mr Andrew Stunell
Martin Linton		Mr Paul Tyler
Mr Patrick McLoughlin		Sir Nicholas Winterton

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Report (Sitting Hours), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the Chairman's draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 14 read and agreed to.

Paragraph 15 read, as follows:

'It seems certain to us that private Members' bills, if they were taken on a weekday evening, would often become whipped business. Not only would this lead to a day with 11 hours or more of whipped business, it would fundamentally change the character of the proceedings, with the intrusion of whipping into time which has so far been at the free disposal of backbenchers; there might also be other, less predictable changes. It could result in legislative business being settled very late in the evening on those occasions when Government business continued much beyond 7 p.m. (see paragraph 17 below). Our judgement is that it would not be right for such a major overhaul of private Members' bills procedure to happen as a by-product of changes to the sitting hours of the House. We recommend that private Members' bills should retain their place on 13 Fridays each year for the time being, until we have had an opportunity to carry out a comprehensive review of the purpose of private Members' bills and of PMB procedure, consulting with the Procedure Committee which has investigated this matter.'

Amendment proposed, in line 11, to leave out from the word 'until' to the end of the paragraph and insert the words 'a comprehensive review of the purpose of Private Members' Bills and of Private Members' Bills procedure has been completed by the Procedure Committee'.—(Sir Nicholas Winterton.)

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

The Committee divided.

Ayes, 3

Mr Oliver Heald

Mr Patrick McLoughlin

Sir Nicholas Winterton

Noes, 8

Ann Coffey

Barbara Follett

Mr David Kidney

Martin Linton

Mr Peter Pike

Joan Ruddock

Mr Martin Salter

Mr Paul Tyler

Paragraph agreed to.

Paragraphs 16 to 22 agreed to.

Paragraph 23 read, as follows:

'We acknowledge that there are arguments against the new hours on Tuesday but we believe, on balance, that they are preferable to a pattern of sitting from mid-afternoon, late into the night. This pattern was established around the end of the 19th Century, a time when many MPs had to earn a living outside Parliament before attending to their duties in the Chamber. It is not appropriate that a 21st Century Parliament should seek to return to such outdated sitting patterns. Nor do we believe that the House should routinely be legislating late at night, as was formerly the practice. The diversity of Members of Parliament—their constituency workloads, their own working practices and their domestic circumstances—is such that there is no pattern of sitting hours which will please everybody. In the absence of such a panacea we believe that a pattern of work which more closely matches the norm, while taking account of the special nature of Members' work, is highly desirable.'

Amendment proposed, to leave out from the beginning of the paragraph to the second word 'The' in line 7 and insert the words 'The results of the Procedure Committee survey appear to show that MPs view the new hours as the best choice for Wednesday, but prefer the old hours for Tuesday. It is not for us to substitute our judgement for that of the House, but it may be that views have developed further over recent months'.—(Mr Oliver Heald.)

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

The Committee divided.

Ayes, 3

Mr Oliver Heald
Mr Patrick McLoughlin
Sir Nicholas Winterton
Noes, 9

Ann Coffey
Barbara Follett
Mr David Kidney
Martin Linton
Mr Peter Pike
Joan Ruddock
Mr Martin Salter
Mr Andrew Stunell
Mr Paul Tyler

Another Amendment proposed, in line 10, to leave out from the word 'panacea' to the end of the paragraph and insert the words 'MPs as a whole must take account of all these considerations in deciding whether or not the return of the old hours on Tuesday would better fit the needs of our parliamentary democracy'—(Mr Oliver Heald.)

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

Paragraph agreed to.

Paragraph 24 read, as follows:

'We recognise that the new sitting hours have had some undesirable consequences and we suggest below ways in which these might be mitigated. But after almost two years' experience, we do not believe that the arguments for the new sitting hours are any less compelling than they were originally. We expect that the House will be able to express a clear view on Tuesday sittings when this report is debated and we recommend that the House retain the current sitting arrangements on Tuesdays.'

Amendment proposed, in line 5, to leave out from the word 'debated' to the end of the paragraph.—(Mr Oliver Heald.)

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

The Committee divided.

Ayes, 3

Mr Oliver Heald

Mr Patrick McLoughlin

Sir Nicholas Winterton

Noes, 9

Ann Coffey

Barbara Follett

Mr David Kidney

Martin Linton