Examination of Witnesses (Questions 300-319)
MS SANDRA
PEAKE, WITNESS
A, WITNESS B, WITNESS
C, WITNESS D, WITNESS
E, WITNESS F AND
WITNESS G
21 FEBRUARY 2005
Q300 Chairman: He lives in the north?
Witness C: He was released and
he lives in the north now.
Q301 Chairman: Okay. I think you need
to leave that with us because if governments are not providing
enough assistance then governments ought to. As it happens, I
am seeing Senator Mansergh next weekend, so I will talk to him
about it because I think you should be getting help. This is a
very particular case where you need international help so you
need someone from somebody's Foreign Office to do the diplomatic
bit of it all, but it should not be impossible and they should
be trying. Are there any other families of the disappeared who
are in any sort of similar situation where the government could
be doing more?
Witness B: Yes, Chairman. Can
I raise an issue in particular to the situation concerning my
relative, * * * *, my nephew? I wrote to Angela Smith
quite recently in relation to an issue pertaining to financial
support. The issue is that the government quite recently in terms
of the Tsunami disaster made arrangements for victims' relatives
in relation to the seven-year time period to declare someone officially
deceased and get documentation in relation to that. That would
be of great benefit to the * * * * family. My nephew
has two young sons. The rest of the family obviously will support
those children in terms of their future needs but it would be
of great benefit to the * * * * family if the government
would consider moving in that direction in order to support some
documentation being made available in this case.
Q302 Chairman: Where do you live, * * * *?
Witness B: I live in Belfast but
my family are originally from Northern Ireland.
Q303 Chairman: Who is your Member of
Parliament?
Witness B: The Reverend Smyth.
Chairman: There you go. That is not something
for the Committee to do. That is something for the Reverend Martin
Smyth to do.
Q304 Reverend Smyth: The family lives
in Northern Ireland; that is what you are saying?
Witness B: Yes.
Q305 Reverend Smyth: Leave your details
with me please.
Witness B: Yes.
Q306 Chairman: We are having a general
inquiry. It has got very specific because that is such an unusual
point that * * * * * has raised. * * * * *, the right thing for
you to do is to talk to the Reverend Martin Smyth, go and see
him as your constituency MP and he should be able to advance that.
It is not for this committee.
Witness B: I appreciate that.
Q307 Chairman: I am interested in taking
this up because it is very unusual and it is international and
maybe we could help or I could help.
Witness E: Can we move on? I am
speaking for some of the other families as well. We have been
asking for some things from the government, like we want to get
funding for a worker within WAVE specific to the disappeared.
Most of the searches were conducted in the south of Ireland, and
that was maybe four years ago. We have asked, where is that information?
Who has got access to it? If somebody rings up in two weeks' time
and says, "We have some information where your brother is
buried", where do I go to find out, what has already been
done, what has been dug up, what areas have been covered? We have
never got the answers to that.
Q308 Chairman: Who have you asked?
Witness E: We have asked Des Browne
who would have been in with us at one time.
Q309 Chairman: And he has not given you
an answer?
Witness E: He has moved on.
Q310 Chairman: But you have had no answer?
Witness E: We have had no answer.
It has been brought up. On whatever occasion we have been meeting
people it is always brought up, and also we would like to have
a set contact number if somebody wants to get information.
Chairman: I think it would be very helpful—and
let us take the French case as being separate—if you could
consolidate these other cases where you have tried to seek the
government's help and have not received satisfaction. Could you
write to us about that and we will incorporate it in what we are
doing and make some comments and the government will have to answer
us because that is what they are required to do? If you could
perhaps consolidate all that into a short paper for us we will
see what we can do to help.
Q311 Reverend Smyth: Have you been in
touch with the Northern Ireland Office on that very issue since
you are in Northern Ireland?
Witness G: Yes. We were talking
two weeks ago to the Secretary of State and I brought it up again
with him and he said they are hoping now to consolidate the IRA
issues and he is trying to get something working to get us information.
Q312 Chairman: Are we talking specifically
about your case or about the others?
Witness G: No, about mine.
Q313 Chairman: If you talk to Mr Murphy
about it I will talk to Mr Murphy about it.
Witness G: Thank you.
Q314 Mark Tami: Moving on to funding,
we touched on this earlier when I heard the figure of £300,000
mentioned and I am sure every group would like more money. What
could you do with extra funding?
Ms Peake: As far as WAVE is concerned
it will be continuity of services. If you look at our funding
for this year the majority of it will end this year and yet the
area is growing. When I say the area is growing I am talking about
the numbers of people coming forward for services in addition
to those that are continually accessing a range of services. That
is one of the big fears that exists within the sector, that they
have an expectation that people will be provided for and services
will be there.
Q315 Mark Tami: Is that the size of the
money that is allocated or the short term nature of it?
Ms Peake: The short term nature
of it and also the level of funding. When you look at the numbers
of people that are coming through WAVE for services, it is important
that support service provision is there and also that it is tailored
to a range of areas, one-to-one support but also seeing people
into group support and re-engaging in the opportunities.
Q316 Mark Tami: What criteria do you
think should be applied by funders to groups?
Ms Peake: Funding has been spread
across quite a number of areas and not all of it is targeted specifically
to those directly affected by the Troubles and I think that must
be one of the most central criteria, that funding is available
to those who are providing services directly to people affected
by the Troubles.
Q317 Mark Tami: So you think there should
be tighter control over that?
Ms Peake: Yes.
Q318 Reverend Smyth: There is a constant
argument as to whether processes for settling issues and dealing
with the past should be victim centred. Do you agree with that
or should there be a wider approach, bearing in mind that if we
centre on the victims and keep asking people to repeat their story
maybe that will make them feel more victimised?
Witness A: Can you define that?
What do you mean by "victim"?
Q319 Reverend Smyth: A victim is anybody
but then it goes wider than that. You have communities and relations
and such like. The victim is usually the person who is closest,
who either has suffered physically or is a very close relative
of somebody who has suffered, but then beyond that there is a
wider range of family links.
Witness A: I think in the first
instance we mean people directly affected by the conflict. I think
they have to be essentially part of the process, that that is
the road that we choose to go down. You must bear in mind too
that at the minute when it comes to identifying routes that appropriately
deal with the past there is a lot of talk but nobody really has
any clear understanding of what it is they are talking about.
If you talk, for example, in terms of truth committees and stuff
like that, there have been so many that have happened around the
world that to try and pick one that would be relevant to Northern
Ireland is going to be a very difficult thing to do. Essentially
it should be victim centred but if you are going down that road
then obviously there are other aspects for society to take on
board. We need to examine, for example, the role of the churches,
the role of the political parties, the role of governments, the
role of institutions like the Northern Ireland Housing Executive.
It is a ripple effect. As a starting point it should definitely
start with identifying the experiences of people who were directly
affected, the victims themselves.
Witness F: You talked about story
telling, that it might re-traumatise them. My personal opinion
is that it is not story telling; it is grief telling. Part of
our problem is that we have been brought up in a culture where
we did not tell our stories. When my father was shot in 1969 you
did not tell your story; you kept it in-house, you dealt with
it. For me, you did not get ease in referring to it; you did not
get grieving properly. For me, I would not discount the story
telling because I think there are so many people in Northern Ireland
who need to tell their stories, that need to be allowed to do
so, that need to be told it is all right rather than, "Don't
talk about this". There are quite a lot of victims out there
who have never told their story. There are also quite a lot like
me who have told their story time and time again but you should
not discount story telling. Let people be allowed to tell their
stories if they want to.
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