Examination of Witnesses (Questions 160
- 163)
TUESDAY 30 NOVEMBER 2004
MR KIERAN
O'BRIEN AND
MR GEORGE
JOHNSTON
Q160 Mr Bailey: There is no reason
why you cannot tell us personally and, if you like, corporately.
Mr O'Brien: Personally, because
our family home is right next to the fence, it would be the preferable
choice for my family but as a representative of a group that is
not necessarily the view of the group.
Mr Johnston: Purely as an individual,
not representing the opinions expressed at any of the public meetings
or what people say to me, I think it should be closed because
I think it will close itself. I do not think any of the targets
that have been set for financial viability will be met unless—I
am reminded what the Duke of Medina-Sedomia said when the Spanish
Armada set out and Philip II had made a mess of the whole thing.
He said, "At least we are setting out in the confident hope
of a miracle", whatever that means. I think that part of
the problem with Derry City Council is they are confident and
they are hopeful but there is something of an oxymoron between
confidence and hope of a miracle, that something will happen if
only we pull off the trick this time. If we pull off the trick
and get these 829,000 passengers we are flying, if we can do that,
grand. When I say it should be closed, it should be closed because
it is going to close itself unless that miracle in which they
have a confident hope occurs.
Mr Bailey: I must confess, I was not
expecting Phillip II of Spain to be quoted in support of arguments
on the future of Derry Airport.
Mr Campbell: We do go back far in Northern
Ireland.
Q161 Mr Bailey: Basically you want
it closed or to be continued, as I think you put in your own words,
as a failing airport?
Mr Johnston: Yes.
Mr O'Brien: Yes. The one thing
about this group is we are not "not in our backyard".
The proposal which we have offered, and there are more educated
gentlemen in this room than us who very much support the expansion
of the infrastructure of this airport, is an alternative runway
and it is through farmland belonging to our own family and some
of our neighbours who have said to Derry City Council, "You
can come and negotiate for that farmland tomorrow morning".
It is not a case of "not in our backyard", this is a
case of "we will have it in our backyard but, please, not
in our front garden and in our kitchen".
Q162 Mr Bailey: At a huge extra subsidy,
I take it?
Mr O'Brien: Yes, but if the airport
is going to be as successful as some of the people speaking in
support of it have claimed—One thing that is missing from
the technical report which has not been mentioned yet is that
the technical report states that the current runway will have
to be strengthened in the future but no cost has been allowed
for that. What we were saying in our submission was as a long-term
view, looking over the next 20 years, if you count the cost of
re-strengthening that runway added to the cost of the extension
of the runway, maybe in the long-term the subsidy may not be all
that much different even though it may be more in the short-term.
Q163 Chairman: We seem to have a
battle which is a little bit more modern than that referred to
earlier. It seems to be a battle of optimists versus pessimists:
do we believe that this airport will be viable or fail. I thank
you very much for being with us and helping us to take evidence
which, hopefully, will enable us to try to offer some advice as
to which side we think is winning that battle. As I did with the
last witnesses, I am conscious that there may be things you wish
to say that you have not had the opportunity to say. Are there
any other comments that you would wish to make?
Mr Johnston: Yes. One of the major
things, not to put too fine a point on it, that we get battered
with when we argue against the current proposal is that we fail
to recognise the economic benefits that flow from this airport.
If you read the newspaper reports from the very beginning, we
were told that it was in excess of £12 million a year, that
there were figures to back this up and we were left to confront
this. There was no way we could do that sum—we could produce
arguments to say is it a net figure and how much goes out, that
sort of thing—until we got the summary report from PricewaterhouseCoopers.
"The passenger survey carried out in November 2003 at the
airport indicates visitors to Northern Ireland who use the airport
generate a spend in the North West region of £8.5 million
per annum. However, the survey indicated that on average 20% of
these passengers would not have made the trip had the route not
existed. Therefore, the 20% additional spend has been estimated
to amount currently to £1.7 million per annum." If you
are talking specifically about the Derry area, because a lot of
traffic comes through from the Republic, that splits 39/61 and
if you do that sum it adjusts down to £1.037 million. That
is from PricewaterhouseCoopers. It is not until you get the 829,000
passenger movements per annum that you get anywhere near what
they estimate to be an additional spend, because this is here
rather than using other routes, of around about £6 million.
I just want to make that clear because over and over again we
have said that where we get our figures from are what we have
been given and if we were given the full report from Derry City
Council, not just the Executive Summary, we would be able to answer
even more of the questions that have been posed to us.
Mr O'Brien: Hearing the previous
speaker talk about extending the infrastructure and the length
of the runway, one point that has not come up is the current length
of the runway, which is longer than the runway at Belfast City
Airport which has two million passengers. The City of Derry, from
the figures of the Chamber of Commerce, are proposing an optimistic
800,000 passengers. Aberdeen runway is also shorter and I believe
there are no plans to extend it. I have good reason to believe
that the Ryanair 737 0800 flight is currently operating on a flight
from London Stansted to Hamburg Lübeck and Hamburg Lübeck
runway is 50 metres shorter than City of Derry Airport. The flight
distance from Hamburg to Stansted is longer than the flight distance
from Eglinton to Stansted. That is a very strong argument as to
why Derry City Council cannot grow the passenger numbers with
the current length of the runway they have. I know the previous
speaker said that if they did have a bigger runway they could
attract more customers to the airport but the PricewaterhouseCoopers'
report does say that other operators may require some infrastructure
requirements, however there is no evidence at this stage to suggest
how likely that will be. I think that is a very, very important
point.
Chairman: It will not have escaped your
attention that we are taking the City Council and the Board of
the Airport as our next witnesses, so some of those questions
may be asked. Thank you very much.
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