Examination of Witnesses (Questions 80
- 87)
WEDNESDAY 5 MAY 2004
MR PATRICK
YU AND
MS TANSY
HUTCHINSON
Q80 Mr Campbell: You are an umbrella
organisation representing about 23 groups, I was wondering if
you could expand on some—and I think you have already done
this—of the issues of good practice which large employers,
large institutions, engage in which could be replicated across
Northern Irelands. Have you any examples you could give us?
Mr Yu: In relation to the private
sector, at the moment through Business in the Community we are
already promoting the wider diversity of the workforce. Currently
Disability Action and NICEM are on the first round of the EQUAL
Programme, trying to promote the diversity in the workforce in
Northern Ireland. We have been working out a programme with the
Employers Association as well as with the trade unions to promote
wider diversity. We are also developing our good practice, so
we have developed a Race Equality Audit, which has been applied
to public and private institutions. So we will do that crucial
role to set the standard in order to promote wider diversity in
Northern Ireland. I think that is very important. In every single
part of society we have a responsibility to promote pluralism.
That is why we try to work in partnership with different levels
of institutions, in the public or private sector, to promote racial
equality.
Q81 Mr Campbell: You will be aware
that Northern Ireland is a pretty intensely political society.
Do you think it would be helpful if the politicians per se
and the political parties were to identify more closely with the
ethnic minorities? I am thinking of a couple of good practice
ideas. For example, if your umbrella organisation were to receive
an invite from various political parties to come to, say, a party
conference or whatever, so the community from which these attacks
are occurring can see the political representatives in the community
are standing beside the ethnic minorities, do you think what would
be useful or helpful?
Mr Yu: I think it would be very
useful. At the moment we are trying to engage in that process.
After these high profile attacks in the last six months we have
met most of the political parties, especially with the party leaders,
and we get good support and get the message very clear. We are
also starting to attend the party conferences. We would like to
widen this. At the moment we are also thinking about whether in
our Assembly—before we re-establish the new Assembly—we
can set up cross-party ethnic minority groups so we can have a
constant briefing about the situation. I think the dialogue and
the meeting is so crucial. So in NICEM we are building and working
in partnership with all political parties in Northern Ireland
to tackle the issue. The issue is not only about ethnic minorities
per se, we worry about it at the moment because all the
international attention of the media is on racism in Northern
Ireland and it will affect our inward investment and it is not
right. I think we need to put across the message that we have
problems but the extent of the problem is not so great, and certain
parts of the media over-exaggerate the situation with which we
disagree. That is why we need to be working hard with the politicians
to change our image internationally as well as nationally.
Ms Hutchinson: One positive development
we have had recently was NICEM organised a signing of the Anti-Racism
Charter in advance of the elections in June which I understand
has been signed by every party in Northern Ireland, and that was
a very positive move forward.
Mr Yu: There is a European Charter
on Non-Racist Society in Europe, basically to encourage all political
parties across the European Union to sign the charter. It is a
small step.
Q82 Mr Campbell: What about other
examples in ethnic minorities, whether the Chinese New Year or
other events could be more widely celebrated in the community
to ensure the other communities in Northern Ireland see diversity
as a welcome thing rather than a threatening one?
Mr Yu: Different cultures are
crucial. We have the Chinese, the Indian, we also have the Muslim.
At the moment, under the Race Equality Strategy and the Race Equality
Forum there will be a Task Force set up to establish a robust
policy and strategy to tackle racism in society. We will take
into account all those possibilities so that we can work out something
for promoting wider diversity in Northern Ireland. We totally
agree with what you propose, we need to work together more closely.
That is the positive way to move forward.
Q83 Mr Clarke: Let me first of all,
following on from Mr Campbell, congratulate the Council on the
joint press release you put out on the PUP following the racist
attacks in South Belfast. I thought that was an excellent way
of co-operating.
Mr Yu: I also draw attention to
the fact that we were implicated in the IMC Report about which
we were totally unhappy. You can understand the IMC Report was
very damaging on the whole thing.
Q84 Mr Clarke: Absolutely but I applaud
the action you have taken and I hope you continue to take such
action. On the question of monitoring racist incidents, does the
Council keep its own database of racial incidents?
Mr Yu: We do. As I mentioned at
the beginning, we are almost the only one in Northern Ireland
which provides this specific service for the victims of racial
harassment and racial attacks. Currently we have around 100 cases
over the last year and a half. The number is pretty small because
unless we get the referral, unless we know from the paper something
has happened, then we do approach the victim. At the moment there
is no direct referral from Victim Support or the police. We have
been working hard with the police because the current system under
Victim Support does not work, because in Victim Support they do
not employ black people to work and language is another problem.
So that is why we would like to ask the police and the NIO and
the Community Safety Unit whether we can play a much more crucial
role in the future, so they can refer those victims to us so we
can support them not only on the physical issue but on the psychological
and legal side too.
Q85 Mr Clarke: This is very worrying
to the Committee when it is trying to arrive at a fuller picture
of the number of incidents, that we have sometimes conflicting
figures in terms of the number of racist incidents which are followed
through as crimes against the number of referrals you would have.
Forgive me if I say that even those referrals would not in themselves
be a true picture, because whether or not something is or is not
a racist incident would depend on the hurt felt by the individual
who was the victim. Can I say to you that in my small part of
GB, Northamptonshire, for the last four years we have had a system
of racist incident reporting where anybody—a victim, a witness,
an individual who witnesses something in the street—can
report a racist incident to the local council for ethnic minorities,
and they compile the figures and share them with the police. That
way you get a true picture of whether or not somebody conceded
it to be racist against those which people think are crimes but
unimportant. Would the Council welcome such an introduction of
a more widespread reporting incident process?
Mr Yu: We welcome data release.
In fact, the NIO Community Safety Unit use the same kind of system
which was developed in Edinburgh. It will not only just be the
victim but if any people find an incident has happened, they can
report it. This is measured by different ethnic minority groups.
So it is very important. The community needs to have their ownership
and participation, otherwise it will not encourage the ethnic
minority people to report these things. Going back to our system
itself, when we get the victim, the first thing we encourage is
report it to the police. In most cases we will accompany them
to the police station. One of my colleagues in charge of the whole
thing is also a lawyer and she knows the investigation processes
and that is important in her evidence-gathering. That is why the
victim feels more comfortable, accompanied by us, to go to the
police station. So we would like to encourage that kind of development
in the future. That is why we need resources. We only have one
staff at the moment and it is so important to bring in all these
elements to tackle hate crime in Northern Ireland.
Mr Clarke: I think any system has to
be simple. With your permission, I shall pass on the details of
the system we operate in Northamptonshire for you to comment.
Q86 Mr Swire: Mr Yu, in an answer
you gave to Mr Tynan earlier, you suggested you did not have enough
resources or you could do with more resources, that being a start.
If those additional resources were made available, what particular
areas would you prioritise for support and why?
Mr Yu: Firstly I need to ascertain
your question. Is it related to the hate crime issue or ethnic
minorities in general, because they have two different implications
and needs?
Q87 Mr Swire: I think both.
Mr Yu: Firstly, I will deal with
hate crime. At the moment, there are no direct resources from
the NIO to ethnic minorities to tackle those hate crimes. As I
mentioned, the Victim Support scheme is not really practicable
for the ethnic minority community, and that is why there should
be some new resources to beef up the infrastructure for the ethnic
minorities to encourage them to report the crime. Hopefully, the
new monitoring system which has now developed alongside the partnership
approach will be the starting point, but of course the NIO Community
Safety Unit was only the first investment of money, and the system,
when they set it up, has constant recurring expenses to keep with
the system, and that will have resource implications. Going back
to ethnic minorities in general, I think the core funding is fundamental
for the whole community infrastructure within the ethnic minorities.
Currently, the Government will only administer a scheme for less
than half a million, the exact figure is £450,000, which
is basically peanuts within the administration. According to our
information when we identified the needs of the core funding when
the administration was set up three or four years ago we estimated
at the time we needed around £1 million for all these organisations.
Of course, not necessarily all organisations are eligible for
core funding. I must emphasise there is still a long way to go
to set up the sector as a whole, so that is why we need to build
a lot of resources on the infrastructure. I think our society
works very closely with the administration through our capacity-building
programme. So it is important, otherwise I will see the ethnic
minorities in general can be extended to wider public participation
in all the policy areas.
Chairman: Mr Yu, Ms Hutchinson, thank
you very much indeed for your very thorough answers and for helping
us with our inquiry.
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