Examination of Witnesses (Questions 340
- 359)
MONDAY 13 SEPTEMBER 2004
MS HAZEL
FRANCEY, MR
GERRY MCBRIDE
AND MS
CLARE MULLEN
Q340 Reverend Smyth: I understand
that is changing. I said these things were done and they were
consensual. Nobody was going to object to Christmas lights being
turned on—well, some folk might—but we are dealing
with the question of how do we bridge the sectarian divide that
leads to hate crime. Have the councils any role to play in that?
Ms Mullen: Through the Community
Relations Programme, through the delivery of training programmes,
and through developing awareness. Councils have a role to play
in educating school children and educating community groupings.
That will go some way to preventing hate crime in the district.
Mr McBride: In our council area
at the moment we would want a range of programmes to try and provide
people with the information that they need in order to see a way
through some of the difficult issues that they are facing. We
have a number of programmes that we run and we would use people
from the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action (NICVA)
and they would run a number of these training sessions in relation
to various perceptions, different identities, and they would also
look at things like mutual understanding, anti-sectarian awareness,
mediation skills and a basic introduction to community relations
work. These programmes ensure that the capacity of the community
itself is strengthened. We believe that that is an important aspect
of what the council can do in terms of providing the community
itself and groups within area with the ability to understand the
differences and cope with that when it occurs on a more local
basis within their own areas. We feel that that helps with building
relationships and we believe that again is a key factor in promoting
good relations across the district.
Q341 Mr Beggs: Community relations
policy has been accused of being a very middle-class concept which
fails to recognise the harsh realities of many single identity
communities, and is therefore aimed at those who need it least
and people who attend community relations training are the converted.
Is current community relations policy really targeting those most
likely to commit hate crime?
Ms Francey: In Belfast with our
particular interface problems we have a duty to look at those
particular communities and the Belfast interface project itself
launched its own policy statement within the last couple of months
and we have agreed that on those particular problems our council
should look seriously at those issues. Next week we are inviting
in the director of that project who is going to give a presentation
to our steering panel. At the same time we are conducting a major
piece of research from Dr Mike Morrissey, who used to be a lecturer
at one of our local universities. The aim of that is to try and
find if there are other gaps because we realise there are a lot
of organisations funding projects in Belfast and we want to find
out where our money should be going so that there is no duplication
and no overlap. We are trying to use this piece of research to
identify areas where our funding should be targeted. I agree in
the past there have been accusations that it is middle-class and
it is nice and it is safe. All of our steering panel agree that
we need to get the best use of resources to make sure that they
are used most effectively. We want to look at the areas where
it is needed most and I would suspect very strongly that the interface
is going to come out as one of the areas where we need to focus
our efforts in future.
Mr Beggs: The empirical evidence show
patterns of increasing polarisation in Northern Ireland, an increase
in hate crime, deteriorating attitudes between communities, all
of which create circumstances in which hate crime flourishes.
Has community relations policy failed?
Q342 Mr Clarke: Nobody wants to answer
that!
Ms Francey: It has not been terribly
successful. You would have to say that really, to be realistic!
Ms Mullen: Good job you said it!
Q343 Mr Beggs: Are there particular
successes you can point to?
Ms Francey: Yes, as I said earlier,
there are a lot of groups who have been working for years and
often behind the scenes. We have a lot of unsung heroes. The fact
that relations at the interface this summer and certainly last
summer were quieter in Belfast than many of the previous years
is owed to a lot of hard work from a lot of individuals living
in very difficult areas and doing difficult work at all times
of the night.
Q344 Mr Beggs: My final question
would be addressed to Belfast. You say in your submission that
the Council is working in partnership with public and private
agencies "to address wider public issues and examine the
factors that cause division and exclusion". What agencies
have been involved in this work and what have you found in terms
of the causes of division and exclusion?
Ms Francey: That is part of the
research to which I just referred that we were commissioning that
is being jointly financed by ourselves and the Community Relations
Council. A lot of other organisations have already expressed interest
in the results of this survey which we hope will be available
before the end of the year. The Local Strategy Partnership certainly
would be interested in the results of that because they are in
charge of allocating PEACE money. We mention in the written submission
that we have representatives from churches, the business sector
and the trade unions on our steering panel and they are on there
because we know that they have access to much wider networks and
obviously we can cascade our policies and efforts throughout those
bodies as well.
Q345 Mr Bailey: We have already had
some indication about the relative levels of mixed housing provision
but can you just give a breakdown for each of your authorities.
Ms Francey: Within Belfast it
is estimated now that less than one-third of the population of
Belfast lives in areas which are mixed and this split is particularly
marked in public sector housing. The Housing Executive estimate
that in the rest of Northern Ireland about 70 per cent of estates
are segregated and in Belfast they are almost wholly segregated.
Mr McBride: In Down District the
majority of housing areas would be mixed public sector housing
areas. Again the majority of the housing estates would be mixed.
Ms Mullen: Strabane Town itself
would not be mixed housing. Some of the smaller rural villages
like Down Manor, Ballymagorrey and Sion Mills would have more
mixed housing but again I would say the majority of the district
would be segregated.
Q346 Mr Bailey: In the case of Belfast
it has definitely become more segregated. I think that is a fair
comment. Would that be equally true of the other authorities?
Mr McBride: In terms of Down it
has probably gone the other way.
Q347 Mr Bailey: Strabane?
Ms Mullen: Strabane remains segregated.
I do not have official statistics.
Q348 Mr Bailey: To Belfast, if it
is accepted that increased housing segregation is symptomatic
of worsening community relations—and perhaps you can debate
that—what specific initiatives have you taken to address
this?
Ms Francey: In Belfast?
Q349 Mr Bailey: Yes.
Ms Francey: The Northern Ireland
Housing Executive has recently launched a programme to try to
promote community relations in housing. The city council in Belfast
does not have responsibility for housing.
Q350 Mr Bailey: Have you taken any
community-orientated initiatives because some of the problem,
as we heard in interviews earlier, was that in effect the housing
authority was trying to improve housing but community relations
were so bad that it still left this segregation.
Ms Francey: We have not made any
specific efforts regarding housing from the council's point of
view but we would certainly be supportive of the Housing Executive's
efforts.
Q351 Mr Bailey: Would there be scope
for joint initiatives with the Northern Ireland Housing Executive?
Ms Francey: Yes. At our last steering
panel meeting we talked about doing some pilot projects along
those lines but nothing definite so far.
Q352 Mr Bailey: To any of you—any
particular thoughts about giving existing mixed residential areas
support to ensure that they do not become polarised as has happened
in some cases in Belfast?
Mr McBride: In terms of Down District
we have very strong links particularly between what you might
call the single identity areas where the various tenants and community
groups would meet on a regular basis, and that does help to improve
relations. That happens right across the district. The council
itself has a mailing list of 185 groups across our district and
that would go out regularly explaining the different programmes
and schemes that are on offer and also there is a lot of joint
working between those different areas. We feel there is a lot
of very positive work going on.
Ms Mullen: Strabane would be similar
to Down. There are a number of Northern Ireland tenant action
projects in place throughout the district which bring members
of the community together to talk about housing issues and there
is a multi-agency approach. We also have a regular community sheet
that would go out to over 100 community organisations to keep
residents and community groups informed of what is happening and
what is available.
Q353 Mr Bailey: To Belfast just to,
if you like, broaden the discussion slightly. In your submission
you mention that in a partnership effort with the Northern Ireland
Housing Executive you have cleaned up 21 murals and removed 7,000
metres of kerb painting on the Lower Shankhill Road. Aside from
its obvious environmental impact what other impacts did this work
have? Did it provoke resistance and is this policy continuing?
Q354 Ms Francey: It did not provoke
resistance because it was done in consultation and with the support
of local community groups. It was very widely welcomed. I think
I mentioned in the submission that it won a Tidy Britain award
and the Chairman presenting the trophy said it was not only an
environmental improvement but a symbol of hope versus the legacy
of the past. It is not continuing as such but our contract services
department has a Better Belfast Campaign and is certainly developing
a programme to brighten up the neighbourhood in Belfast. We have
other departments in the council who are developing what we call
a Strategic Neighbourhood Action Programme (SNAP) and an Arterial
Routes Programme where that kind of regenerational approach is
taken throughout the city. That was a pilot problem and it seemed
to work very well.
Q355 Mark Tami: We have heard a lot
about Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act today. How successful
do you think it has been in combating `hate crime'?
Mr McBride: I think Section 75
is a very strong piece of legislation. What it did perhaps for
the first time is it identified many key groups that in the past
have received less attention than would be required. The essence
of Section 75 is to improve public policy making and therefore
it did focus the minds of the elected representatives when they
were deciding on what particular policies to put forward to ensure
that they were quality-proofed and effective. So I think it is
a very important piece of legislation. Tied into that is the good
relations responsibility which is incorporated within Section
75 and I think if it is taken to its logical conclusion it should
improve the overall delivery of services and at the same time
create a more inclusive society for everyone and one that is responsive
to the specific needs of various groups.
Q356 Mark Tami: Would your colleagues
agree with that?
Ms Mullen: I would agree with
Gerry that Section 75 has gone a long way in terms of making the
councils and other bodies more focused on disability and race.
Strabane District Council would make the community organisations
aware of what Section 75 is and how it works and how they would
need to take it into consideration if they have a building and
they are employing staff and that kind of thing.
Ms Francey: I think the main issue
from our point of view has been the equality training that all
staff and all elected members have undergone to make them aware
of their obligations under the new legislation and make them aware
of the nine groups that have been designated. The introduction
of the consultation process has broadened things out and made
people aware, not only of their statutory obligations under the
legislation, but it has improved our communication with the groups
affected. Our equality officer would have a very good working
relationship with the various Section 75 groups.
Q357 Mr Tynan: How successful have
the Community Safety Partnerships been, and how would you see
them developing? Do you see their role developing further?
Ms Mullen: Strabane District Council
have just adopted the Community Safety Partnership, so we are
lagging behind other councils in that respect because of the politics.
We feel that the establishment of the Community Safety Partnership
provides the opportunity for multi-agency working. Community safety
will be a new concept for Strabane District Council to take on
board and we hope that it will help us focus on the community
safety of the area as a whole through a multi-agency approach.
Ms Francey: It is probably too
early to say. We are just in the stages of having adopted a Community
Safety Partnership in the last year or so, so it is very much
in its infancy, but it does seem to be working well.
Mr McBride: I would agree. The
working definition we have for community safety is "protecting
people's right to live in confidence and without fear for their
own or other people's safety". It is about ensuring that
everyone within the area is being dealt with in a proper manner
and that where issues arise, there is support for them and that
crime prevention measures are brought into effect before certain
issues get out of hand. Using the partnership approach, using
people like the councils, the local health authority, the housing
executive, the police service etcetera, ensures that there is
greater emphasis on preventing crime and also ensuring that the
communities themselves can play their own part in preventing crime
within those localities. So we believe that a Community Safety
Partnership is very important to the district.
Q358 Mr Tynan: Is there any way we
can improve on it? Can the role be developed further? I know it
cannot as far as Belfast is concerned, but how do the other councils
see that?
Mr McBride: There are a range
of initiatives that are being considered by our own Community
Safety Partnership. We have just embarked on a community safety
audit. Stage two of that involves consultation with various groups
throughout the district. Running on from that will be a specific
action plan. We have already identified a number of programmes,
some of which are cross-border initiatives, to try and look at
best practice not only within our own district but across the
UK and across other districts in Northern Ireland. We have also
looked at a range of specific programmes, such as target hardening
for particular properties. There is a scheme that has just got
off the ground called the "Good Morning Down" scheme.
This is a telephone help-line type scheme where vulnerable people
within the community will be able to receive some telephone support,
particularly in the morning time and we hope to extend that to
people from ethnic minorities or other people who feel vulnerable.
We believe that that type of scheme shows that the community cares
about people and it cares about giving support to people who perhaps
feel under pressure either because of their age, because of their
disability or because of their ethnicity, or perhaps they have
been the victim of crime in the past. We believe schemes like
that, properly targeted and focused, can have a great impact in
dealing with the fear of crime, which in many cases is a big issue
particularly for elderly people.
Q359 Mr Tynan: Hazel, Belfast Council
is critical of the Government's funding and allocation as regards
the community relations sector and argues that it "is indicative
of the priority given to it and is considerably less than that
assigned to the equality sector". What additional funding
do you require?
Ms Francey: We were just making
the point in the submission that the amount allocated is tiny
compared to the amount given to various other sectors and that
obviously reflects the priority given to it by central government
and by government at Northern Ireland level. If you are serious
about addressing a problem and about resolving issues, nothing
happens without resources. If you need to tackle the problem,
you need to pump some resources into it. We were just making that
general point.
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