Examination of Witnesses (Questions 156
- 159)
THURSDAY 9 SEPTEMBER 2004
MR NICHOLAS
RUSSELL, MR
TONY BURTON,
MR RAY
COWELL AND
MR JULIAN
SIMPSON
Q156 Chairman: May I welcome you
to the third session this morning and ask you to identify yourselves
for the record.
Mr Russell: Nicholas Russell,
representing Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB).
Mr Burton: I am Tony Burton from
the National Trust.
Mr Cowell: Ray Cowell from Voluntary
Organisations' Network North East
Mr Simpson: Julian Simpson, from
VONNE as well.
Chairman: Does anyone want to say anything
by way of introduction, or are you happy for us to go straight
to questions. Then we will go straight to questions.
Q157 Mr Betts: How far are voluntary
organisations involved in regional assemblies at present? Is there
any detailed involvement?
Mr Cowell: Perhaps I may speak
for the North East. The sector has two members on the current
assembly; that is two out of 60-odd, I think. With those two members
we have been fortunate in the individuals concerned because that
is quite a minority on such a large group. As well as the formal
members of the assembly we have had representatives on all the
main working and scrutiny committees that the assembly have established
and on most of its working groups in one way or another. We have
quite consistent contact with the staff of the assembly, and we
publicise and communicate a lot of their information and papers
out to our sector and the other way round as well. So it is quite
an involved involvement but it is still to an extent dependent
on whether they want to involve us or not.
Mr Burton: Our experience is that
there is universal involvement but the involvement tends to be
in the constellation of working groups which are away from where
the real decisions and influence lie. So there only is selective
involvement in the heart of the regional assemblies and the decisions
that they are making.
Q158 Mr Betts: Do you see yourselves
having an increased stakeholder role under the new proposals?
Mr Burton: I think the proposals
have the potential both to formalise and to strengthen that relationship
and they establish some important principles about participation
rather than simply consultation. They establish some seed-corn
funding perhaps for building capacity and they establish some
ground rules, but I do not think they persuade the sceptics that
the reality of the involvement will recognise the true contribution
which the voluntary sector as a whole should and could be making
to policy design and delivery.
Q159 Mr Betts: Are they really where
the voluntary sector is at? Are not most of the people who engage
in activities most interested in day-to-day things in which district
councils are involved rather than the grand designs and strategies
at regional level?
Mr Cowell: I think there is a
large element of truth in that. There is not a dam behind which
strains a huge amount of interest from the sector waiting to get
in. It will have to be encouraged if we want to develop that further,
simply for the reasons you have said, that most of our groups,
certainly in the North East, are trying to survive, and when you
are trying to survive there are much more immediate problems than
strategic policymaking at a regional level.
Mr Russell: If I may come in on
this question. Being a national organisation we have had limited
involvement out in the regions, but part of my remit at RNIB is
to lead on relations with the Greater London Authority and its
functional bodies. Unfortunately there is not a system of co-option
onto GLA committees, and we welcome the proposals to do that,
but there is regular dialogue, involvement in consultations. We
are also members of the council and executive of the London Civic
Forum, which has been a very useful body in terms of facilitating
access to be properly consulted and to coordinate that work. It
also has a good record on equal opportunities and we would recommend
it as one possible device within the regions. I know that has
been something that the Government have suggested might be a possibility,
both within the draft bill and previously in the white paper.
Mr Simpson: I think it is the
fact that the voluntary sector does work at a grassroots' level
and is interested in local issues that means that it is a crucial
stakeholder and it would have a contribution to make to a regional
assembly. The fact is that there is not this willingness to work
at a regional level and organisations tend not to think strategically.
I think that is why it would be important actually to invest in
structures that would support voluntary sector involvement in
an assembly if there is a sense—and we welcome the fact—that
it is recognised that the voluntary sector has a contribution
to make.
Mr Burton: Some parts of the voluntary
sector are more significant economically than some parts of the
business sector. The significance of social enterprise, its contribution
in a range of economic and social areas, is actually as significant
as some of the bodies who would be invited on or attracted for
other reasons.
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