Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100-119)
MINISTRY OF
DEFENCE
25 OCTOBER 2004
Q100 Mr Bacon: Chairman, I do not want
to unnecessarily spend time talking about Apaches, but it was
Sir Kevin who made the point. He was pleased to say to this Committee
they can now fly. My understanding was that they could always
fly but that there were not enough trained pilots.
Sir Kevin Tebbit: I meant operationally.
What I meant was that they had entered service; initial operating
capability has been declared and the first squadron is now in
service, there will be two squadrons by next February.
Q101 Mr Bacon: When will all 67 be out
of the shed and operating?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: All 67 will
not be, because part of that was the attrition buy, which is the
case with all aircraft, as you know. April 2007 will be—
Q102 Mr Bacon: In other words, three
to four years of storage is still accurate?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: Not for all
of them, obviously, but some aircraft.
Q103 Mr Bacon: If you are able to give
us a note on the up-to-date position and how it is going to progress,
that would be very helpful, rather than dwell on it any further
now.[8]
Sir Peter, may I ask you a question? It says in your CV that you
were Assistant Director for the Sea Wolf missile project responsible
for procurement and logistics support for all variants of the
system. That role as Assistant Director for the Sea Wolf Missile
Project included things like project management, did it?
Sir Peter Spencer: Yes.
Q104 Mr Bacon: Did it include having
regular review meetings?
Sir Peter Spencer: Yes.
Q105 Mr Bacon: Did it include assessing
the risks of the Sea Wolf Project?
Sir Peter Spencer: Yes.
Q106 Mr Bacon: Did it include assessing
whether the Sea Wolf missile was likely to explode when our forces
were trying to load one and fire it or whether it complied with
UK safety standards?
Sir Peter Spencer: Yes.
Q107 Mr Bacon: It did include all of
those things. I thought it might. Can you say when you were Assistant
Director for the Sea Wolf Missile Project?
Sir Peter Spencer: 1987 until
1990.
Q108 Mr Bacon: 1987 until?
Sir Peter Spencer: 1990.
Q109 Mr Bacon: Thank you. In other words,
quite a long time really. You finished that job 14 years ago?
Sir Peter Spencer: Yes.
Q110 Mr Bacon: Sir Kevin, if I may turn
to you, in relation to the Chinook project, the idea of having
project management, the idea of having regular review meetings,
the idea of assessing the risks and the idea of making sure that
something complied with UK safety standards is not a new one,
is it?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: Certainly not.
Q111 Mr Bacon: We have just heard from
Sir Peter it was something he was doing; and I believe it was
a successful project, was it not, Sir Peter. He did it successfully
on the Sea Wolf side?
Sir Peter Spencer: That is correct,
yes.
Q112 Mr Bacon: Who was in charge of the
Chinook HC3 helicopter project?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: There was a
project manager clearly originally in charge.
Q113 Mr Bacon: Who was it?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: I do not know
the individual's name. I think it might be inappropriate for me
to give it to you.
Q114 Mr Bacon: It is presumably public
information, is it, or is it secret?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: No, it is not
particularly secret. I am not in a position to say who it is,
I do not know. If you want me to answer it a slightly different
question is, who do I blame and what have I done about it? I am
perfectly prepared answer that area.
Q115 Mr Bacon: I would rather phrase
my own questions and get answers to the question I have phrased
rather than having them phrased for me.
Sir Kevin Tebbit: I do not have
the name of the individual. I know the project management changed
over the period from 1995 until—
Mr Bacon: When we get a CV—in fact
we have got one for you—it also says, or usually does, who
the previous accounting officers are for the Department since
it was set up leading to the present accounting officer, yourself.
I think it would be very helpful if you could send us a note of
who was in charge of this project when, because, as you say, it
was a very flawed project, the whole procurement seems to be deeply
flawed, and it would be interesting to know who was running it.
Can you do that?
Chairman: Hang on a moment. Sir Kevin
and his predecessors are the accounting officers. Under our system
they are liable in front of this Committee and they appear before
us. I would like to draw breath before we start establishing a
new principle. I do not think you need to answer that, Sir Kevin.
Q116 Mr Bacon: Let me ask a different
question, Chairman, the question Sir Kevin had himself phrased:
who do you blame?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: I blame to some
extent the project team; I blame to some extent the central customer
in the equipment definition area.
Q117 Mr Bacon: Who is the central customer?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: In those days
it was known as the Operational Requirement Staff.
Q118 Mr Bacon: Was that within the MOD?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: Yes, within
the MOD. I think that "blame" is the wrong word, but
I think there were problems also with the Safety Authority itself
and its engagement with the project team. I think there was a
weakness of senior staff oversight; and I think also there was
contractor behaviour, which was perhaps over optimistic in promising
to be able to deliver.
Q119 Mr Bacon: There is nothing new there,
is there?
Sir Kevin Tebbit: This is the
result of the review which I commissioned into the project to
establish this, as I mentioned right at the beginning. I think
decisions were made collectively rather than any individual being
responsible and I also have to say that I think, as far as could
be judged by the review that was conducted, people behaved with
the best intentions, but they got things wrong.
8 Ev 28 Back
| 
