Select Committee on Public Administration Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witness (Questions 80-87)

3 FEBRUARY 2005

SIR PETER GERSHON, CBE

  Q80 Chairman: You are not just going to walk away having done this review; you are going to be here to make sure that when we get to 2007-08 you can be asked the questions about what happened.

  Sir Peter Gershon: I have a continued interest, yes, but in its deliverability.

  Q81 Chairman: We shall look forward to seeing you again.

  Sir Peter Gershon: I shall look forward to that pleasure.

  Q82 Mr Hopkins: Could I just ask one last question to reinforce the point you were making, Chairman? Would you be surprised, Peter, if I told you that my office recently telephoned the pension helpline to be told by a recorded voice that they were number 83 in the queue? Would this suggest that they are understaffed or overstaffed?

  Sir Peter Gershon: It depends on what quality of service the service provider is intending to deliver. That is the fundamental thing. You then have to configure the resources accordingly. If, also, they make you aware that if you ring at a particular time of day and it is likely to be very congested, it would be better if you could ring at a different time of the day.

  Q83 Chairman: You cannot call that choice, can you: "You phone when we would like you to"?

  Sir Peter Gershon: I am not here to defend the Government's choice agenda.

  Q84 Chairman: It is one of its key public service reform objectives.

  Sir Peter Gershon: Yes, but it is for the Government to make the trade-offs between efficiency and choice and all the other agendas it is trying to pursue. That is not my job.

  Q85 Chairman: No, you have quite enough on your plate.

  Sir Peter Gershon: I have a limited on-going involvement in this. I have essentially returned to the private sector.

  Q86 Chairman: As I say, we may want to revisit this some way down the line.

  Sir Peter Gershon: Having done one review back in 1999 and proposed a target which was then substantially over-achieved, I have a personal interest in seeing that this report also delivers what it intended to deliver.

  Q87 Chairman: Do you feel confident that this is going to happen?

  Sir Peter Gershon: I am neither confident nor do I have a lack of confidence in this. I have never looked at efficiency drives this way. It is about driving this thing day by day. I am satisfied at the moment that there is continued sustained political and top management leadership of this. There is a proper programme management function in place which is putting pressure on departments. There is quarterly reporting to the Prime Minister and the Chancellor giving a traffic light assessment of progress and there are clearly things beginning to happen which are good. There are some things which you have alluded to which are clearly adverse to what was originally intended. It is much too early to say. I will be confident when we are in sight of the finishing line and even then we have to keep very focussed on it and not look over our shoulders and get complacent that we are so near. That is just my management style.

  Chairman: I think that is a good note to end on. We are very grateful for your evidence this morning. Thank you very much indeed.





 
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