Examination of Witnesses (Questions 360
- 363)
TUESDAY 18 JANUARY 2005
MR CHRIS
PALMER, MR
TONY HOWELL
AND MR
TIM BOYES
Q360 Mr Prentice: So this academy
that Tim was telling us about that may draw young people from
his catchment area and perhaps take the number of pupils at Queensbridge
down from 550 to 450—would you live with that or would you
seek to do something about it.
Mr Howell: I am not sure of the
details of this arrangement, but when we have heard of developments
which that kind of effect on schools, we have opposed them in
the public consultation.
Mr Boyes: In response to the point
about the success in value-added terms of the Bradford single
faith school, if it is a school for Muslim girls, then you have
to ask the question alongside what is happening to the boys in
that community, and let us look at special needs numbers. I do
not know of very many faith-based schools, or Muslim schools in
this community, which have outstanding provision for special needs.
What you are in danger of doing there is simply creating another
version of a system whereby a particular group of people with
a particular commitment and a particular cohesion can get what
they want for their group, and it is who is left on the outside
of that. That is the issue wherever you go. If you look at the
successful Catholic school that I work with, it has outstanding
practice all the way through it, and their special needs numbers
have gone from about 22% down to 5.7%. That is what happens when
a school gets successful. I made the point this morning: I feel
passionately about the value of drawing on faith-based communities
in terms of what the resources and values of those communities
can bring into our schools, but it needs to be in a system that
does not leave 10 or 15% of kids with acute special needs or behaviour
problems, or difficult boys, or families that are not together
enough to get their kids into the Muslim school. There is a huge
difference between Muslim families who value education so much
that they will find the money to pay because they are very often
fee-paying, or make that extra commitment to fight for their child
to be in this secure community, and the families that are more
dysfunctional with children who end up in the poorest neighbourhood
community school.
Q361 Mr Prentice: You are quoted
in the local paper today talking about educational apartheid in
Birmingham, so all this stuff that we have been hearing from you
about federations and teachers moving at the end does not make
any difference, does it; otherwise you would not use such a phrase,
"educational apartheid".
Mr Boyes: Because we are still
living in a system that is so significantly distorted by unbridled
choice. You asked the question this morning about the significance
of the grammar schools. Yes, it is only 8-9% of the secondary
population; but half a dozen middle-class, committed, educated
families in one year group in my school makes the world of difference.
Q362 Mr Hopkins: I agree so strongly
with what has been said by Tim. The problem is that you are dealing
with a situation not of your making. The genies were let out of
the bottles a long time ago and you are dealing with the consequences.
Do you not have a role in explaining to government, and particularly
Downing Street, the problems that they are going to create if
they continue to promote what they are promoting now, which is
a diversity of provision, a fragmentation of the system into a
whole range of different types of schools, which will produce
just what you have got in Birmingham. I may say that there is
a spectrum, and in Luton, where I live, which has a similar kind
of population to yours, we do not have that. We have state provision
and a lot of very similar 11-16 high schools, a sixth form college
and a further education college. There are little distortions
here and there, but by and large our pattern of provision is as
I describe. We do of course have social class differences, and
we do have ethnic minority divisions to a certain extent between
our schools, but it is nothing like you describe in Birmingham.
If you could say to government, "do not do what we have done
because it is a mistake", that would be very helpful to society
and to Britain in general.
Mr Howell: I was invited to meet
some of the advisors to the Prime Minister's delivery unit on
the topic of choice in education and said exactly the things that
we have said here to them on that occasion. We say it on every
occasion. Exactly the same message is taken, both by politicians
of any party and by the officers who speak to DfES and to Downing
Street, which is that we would like not to be where we are, but
this is where we are. There are some pragmatic solutions that
can make where we are better. Trying to reverse the clock and
go back to a solution that is based on high-quality community
schools would take a major shift in Government thinking.
Q363 Chairman: We could go on for
a long time, and I would like to—but we cannot. We have
identified some territory. Speaking as someone whose children
went to a Church of England primary school in England, I remember
after doing a whole term of work around the theme of Easter, one
night the boys had got a great big folder all about Easter, and
I said to him, "Look, Tim, what was Easter all about then?"
He said: "Oh, that is when Jesus was cross." You do
wonder about faith schools sometimes! Thank you very much for
all that. It was really very valuable. Thank you, Tim, particularly
for a really very stimulating session at Queensbridge this morning.
We came away bowled over by the school and by the children we
met. We were not unimpressed by the head teacher either! Thank
you very much.
Mr Howell: I am not at all surprised
by your comment about Tim's school. We have some excellent secondary
schools in this City and we have some tremendous head teachers,
and Tim is one of them.
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