Examination of Witnesses (Questions 20
- 39)
MONDAY 7 FEBRUARY 2005
DANIELLE MILES,
IAN HUTTON,
AMY HUNTINGTON
AND STEPHEN
ROWLEY
Q20 Chairman: But you could have
gone to five or six?
Ms Huntington: I presume, so but
I liked the idea of Newcastle, the university and the city and
it felt it the right decision to make.
Q21 Chairman: Ian, how did you choose?
Mr Hutton: I guess when I was
looking at courses I picked a generalist course because, as I
said, I felt that at each level I kept going up and new areas
of the subject kept opening up and I did not want to get to university
and find out that I would rather be doing something else at that
sort of level. Then university-wise, I guess I picked UEA because
they always described themselves as a research-led teaching school
and the idea of having the people doing the research—
Q22 Chairman: So it was the research
that stimulated you?
Mr Hutton: Yes, making the publications—
Q23 Chairman: Why do you think research
makes a difference? I mean, you just read it by rote and you pass
exams, do you not?
Mr Hutton: No, not really because
the people who are doing the research, they are the people who
are actually progressing the field of biology and they are the
people who are finding out new things and making the publications.
They are writing what goes into the journals, and it is very nice
to be able to go to a lecture and to be told, "Actually this
paper came out last year but since then our group has discovered
that this in fact is what is going on." That was one of the
things that I wanted, to be taught by the people doing the research
at the forefront of the subject.
Q24 Chairman: Did you care about
whether the department had a grade four, grade five, five stars
or whatever? Did that affect you at all?
Mr Hutton: I had heard about the
ratings but that was not what I based my decision on; I based
my decision on when I went round and when I talked to people and
when I was shown round the school at the Open Days. That was what
gave me a real feel for the school. You can put numbers on a lot
of things but until you actually see them you cannot always relate
them.
Q25 Chairman: Danielle, how did you
choose?
Ms Miles: I chose university pretty
much on the feel of the place again. I applied to a couple of
universities with similar courses. I chose Exeter in particular
because they did forensic modules and I was interested in forensic
science, but I did not want to do a forensic degree, I wanted
to get a chemistry one so that I could still do other science
careers if I changed my mind later on. And they did the forensic
module which would help me.
Q26 Chairman: Forensics?
Ms Miles: Yes.
Q27 Chairman: Is that because you
watch telly a lot, or what?
Ms Miles: Not really! I am not
one of the CSI fans, no, I do not watch that! I have always been
interested in it, as well as the police and things like that.
I chose the university in the end—I just went and had a
look at it—just the friendliness of it and the way they
taught and the contact hours and everything like that, I thought
it would suit myself.
Q28 Chairman: Stephen?
Mr Rowley: I actually chose Aston
because it had a good foundation course that I needed to get for
my degree.
Q29 Chairman: For really different
reasons, I suppose. So what use was the science at school to you?
Did you get it knocked out of your head in the first week, second
week, or was it helpful, do you think, having a background in
the science you got at school or was it irrelevant to what went
on and has gone on later?
Mr Hutton: It was helpful but
the actual direction of the course takes you in another direction
in your second and third years. The first year, some of it you
have already done at A Level and other bits you have not and they
bring you up to speed on that. Then the second and third years
they specialise you in the true nature of what biology is.
Q30 Chairman: Does anybody want to
add to that?
Ms Miles: I feel with the chemistry—it
is slightly different for me because I did not have the teachers
teaching me and I am not really sure if I got as much out of my
A Levels as I could have done if I had a teacher—you are
not really told the whole truth; they give you an easier version
of it to digest. And sometimes I feel in my course now it would
have been more helpful if they had us the truth in A Levels and
GCSEs rather than skimming around the outside of it.
Q31 Chairman: You mean they lied
to you, did they, Danielle? Who lied to you, Danielle?
Ms Miles: Only white lies!
Q32 Chairman: Write it down on a
piece of paper! Stephen?
Mr Rowley: I agree with Danielle.
Q33 Chairman: You know why we are
having this inquiry, presumably, that we are very concerned with
what is happening to science in universities and the fact that
many people in schools like yourselves are not going on to do
these courses because they may not be there, or they do not see
any future in it, or whatever. How do you explain what is happening,
the number of students going into science? You were obviously
fired up, enthusiastic, determined, under pressure and so on,
but a lot of people are not risking that any more. Why do you
think that is?
Ms Miles: I think it is because
it is being made increasingly harder, the fact that less people
are going there and less courses, and there are so many things
that are easier to get on to.
Q34 Chairman: You mean science courses?
Ms Miles: Yes, there are less
science courses but there are a lot of different degrees in different
areas that have less qualifications that you need to get on to
them.
Q35 Chairman: Do you still think
that there are soft art courses that you can do, like media studies,
shall we say, and end up on Radio 4 or something? Is there a lot
of that still around?
Ms Miles: Yes, an awful lot of
that, and I think there is a lot of pressure to go to university
now. I have been talking to my mum, and from her generation they
never even considered university at her school, but at my school
it was just the next step. Pretty much everyone in the sixth form
went on to university. And because there is so much pressure you
think you have to go to university, even if you have not got the
grades to do what you want, so you go on and do a degree that
might not be what you want to do but it is just easy to get on
to it, and you are at university. So people are going for the
wrong reasons and not doing truly what they want to do, maybe.
Q36 Chairman: My daughter tells me
that the scientists she knew at school—she was on the sociology
side and so on—that the scientists at school were always
thought of as "geeks", that they were a bit strange.
Is that still there in school?
Ms Miles: It is at university
still as well. I remember my first week at Freshers' Week, when
everyone was asking what you are studying, and the facial expressions
of people when you say, "I do chemistry," is an "Ooh"
kind of look on their faces. They say, "Why are you doing
that?"—"It is because it is what I want to do,
it is a good subject to do," and there is a whole image of
it as not being very cool, as you say, and looking like "geeks".
Mr Hutton: It is almost as though
there are these two cultures that go with university; there are
the people who go to study and the people who go to university
because they feel that they should, and they get on an easy course
and they spend a lot of time lazing around and relaxing, and often
you are stigmatised if you do a science course, purely because
of the number of hours, and people see that in fact you want to
do that.
Q37 Chairman: That is not just at
UAE, is it?
Mr Hutton: No.
Q38 Chairman: You have to watch because
the Press are here, you know! So you think that is general in
schools and the thinking?
Mr Hutton: Yes.
Ms Miles: Yes.
Q39 Chairman: What do you think,
Amy?
Ms Huntington: I think it is a
little bit that people at school are not sure. Maybe the careers
advice is not as good as it could be? They do not have the information
that, "If you want to go into this you will need a
science degree" or "A science degree will help you do
this career or that career."
Chairman: Go on, Brian, pitch in.
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