Examination of Witnesses (Questions 373-379)
DR DENVIL
COOMBE, PROFESSOR
PETER MACKIE,
DR GREGORY
MARSDEN AND
DR DAVID
METZ
26 JANUARY 2005
Chairman: We have a little housekeeping,
gentlemen. Members having an interest to declare?
Clive Efford: Member of the Transport
and General Workers' Union.
Chairman: Gwyneth Dunwoody, ASLEF.
Mrs Ellman: Louise Ellman, member of
the Transport and General Workers' Union.
Mr Stringer: Graham Stringer, member
of Amicus.
Q373 Chairman: Gentlemen, can I firstly
say how very welcome you are this afternoon? Did any of you want
to begin the session with a statement or may we go straight to
questions?
Dr Coombe: I think we can go straight
to questions.
Q374 Chairman: Can I ask all of you whether
you agree it is impossible to build our way out of congestion
without limiting traffic growth?
Dr Coombe: Yes.
Q375 Chairman: Does that mean yes, we
can build our way out of congestion?
Dr Coombe: It is impossible to
build your way out of congestion. I think the government has accepted
this most clearly in relation to the M25. If one wanted to cater
for unrestrained demand on the M25, one would have to widen it
by an extra three lanes in each direction as opposed to the current
plans to widen it by only one.
Q376 Chairman: I trust you are not going
to suggest that to anyone?
Dr Coombe: The widening by one
is what I have suggested. You can find that pattern throughout
the country.
Q377 Chairman: What about limiting traffic
growth?
Dr Coombe: Is it a good idea or
can it be done? It is a good idea and it can be done through road
pricing.
Q378 Chairman: Does anybody else want
to comment?
Professor Mackie: Yes. I would
like to agree with Dr Coombe. A pure capacity enhancing programme
is inconceivable. It is unaffordable. It would be unacceptable
on environmental grounds. If you could overcome those problems
on the inter-urban network, you would run into tremendous difficulties
at the interface between the inter-urban network and the local
road network. Therefore, the policy has to be a judicious mixture
of pricing, physical demand management and capacity enhancement,
all three sets of policies going hand in hand in order to try
to manage our road network more efficiently.
Q379 Chairman: Would the point Dr Coombe
was making about the suggestion of one lane widening deal with
it or are you saying that the mix of measures would deal with
the fact that, if you get far more traffic coming off the roads
onto the urban areas, you would have a problem with congestion
there? Do you think the one lane widening would have that effect?
Professor Mackie: Yes, I think
it would. One lane on the M25 is an awful lot of traffic. The
compatibility between the capacity on the trunks and the feeders
is already a very significant problem as anyone who queues at
junctions on the M25 or the M60 knows. It is a problem already
and it would be exacerbated by a major investment programme on
the inter-urban network with no other supporting measures.
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