Examination of Witnesses (Questions 520-539)
SIR ROBIN
BIGGAM, MR
DAVID HARRISON,
AND MR
TOM FANNING
2 FEBRUARY 2005
Q520 Chairman: As compared with?
Mr Fanning: In terms of our tag
lanes 1,000 transactions an hour.
Q521 Mr Donohoe: Per lane is that?
Mr Fanning: Per lane. In terms
of other transactions it differs, depending on the rates.
Q522 Chairman: Give us a comparison.
Mr Fanning: 240 to 300 in manual
modes per lane per hour.
Q523 Chairman: And you are saying 1000
with the tag.
Mr Fanning: Yes.
Q524 Mr Donohoe: What is the level of
non-payment that has occurred?
Mr Fanning: Almost miniscule.
We found that the general public really have taken to tolling.
We spent an awful lot of time in the early days trying to change
people's behaviour and working hard with people, getting them
to understand the technology. I still believe that we have more
to do, but the level of non-payment is miniscule and anything
that we track, we find the general public come back very, very
quickly if they have not paid; but it is absolutely miniscule.
Q525 Mr Donohoe: Do you think this same
technology can be used on other schemes?
Mr Fanning: I think this level
of technology is very, very suitable for use on urban motorways.
It has been used extensively throughout France, Spain and Scandinavia.
I understand it has been used also in Austria for the lorry road-use
charging scheme.
Q526 Mr Donohoe: If, for instance, there
was a move towards national road charging schemes, would you allow
the government to test other schemes on your road?
Mr Harrison: I think we would
be open to talk about it and I think so long as—
Q527 Chairman: We noticed that covert
look at Sir Robin. Do you think we should ask him to answer, Mr
Harrison? I would not want to ruin your career!
Sir Robin Biggam: Chairman, if
there was a request from the Department to test another road I
am sure we would cooperate fully with them.
Q528 Mr Donohoe: Can I turn the subject
to another matter? In terms of emergency vehicles themselves,
I understand that you charge the likes of the emergency services
like the AA and the RAC to come on to your toll road?
Mr Fanning: That is correct, we
do charge.
Q529 Mr Donohoe: Why do you do that?
Mr Fanning: Like any other business,
as are the RAC and the AA a business, we do charge their vehicles
to come on to the road to collect the customers if they break
down. Equally, we assist them in that process by arranging some
support units. We are on the road within ten to 12 minutes to
assist customers that break down, and we provide assistance throughout
that time. In hot weather we give them drinks and in cold weather
we provide them with ponchos and various things like that.
Q530 Chairman: Quite an expensive drink,
is it not?
Mr Fanning: Chairman, we are a
business and where I draw a conclusion, if they are called on
as a result of police action they are allowed to have free passage
to the tolls. If they break down in the standard way the RAC or
the AA will pay to take them through.
Q531 Mr Donohoe: I see. Why do you not
allow them on for free?
Mr Fanning: Simply that we are
a business as the AA and the RAC are a business. We charge them
to go through and they would re-charge that back to their customers.
Q532 Mr Donohoe: But the government does
not charge them for being on a normal road, does it?
Mr Fanning: All emergency vehicles
are allowed on the road.
Q533 Mr Donohoe: So the fire, ambulance
and police?
Mr Fanning: Yes, all those elements
are allowed free use on the road; it is only the RAC and the AA
that attend for their customers that have broken down that are
charged.
Q534 Mr Donohoe: Do you get any information
from the police as to the number of people who are speeding on
your road?
Mr Fanning: We see some statistics
from the police. I have seen quite a lot of reports in the various
Press about these things—Auto Express have made a
number of comments on that—but of course the matter of policing
and speeding on the road is a matter for the CMPG, for the police
and we have great relationships and cooperation with the police.
Q535 Mr Donohoe: I understand that there
was some boycott, or there was at one time from the Heavy Goods
Vehicles. Has that had any effect or do you not see any difference?
Mr Fanning: At the early stage,
when we first opened, I think that the Heavy Goods Vehicles took
the view that they would look at what was happening on the M6
at the time, and our charge at that time was of course £10
to £11—net of VAT, £8.51p. We looked at this over
a period of time and engaged in a lot of discussions. We carried
out a number of research mechanisms, all of us, with the organisations
beforehand, to look at our pricing and we still believe that pricing
was appropriate. But after engaging in discussions with the Heavy
Goods Vehicles operators', customers and the FTA and RHA alike
we formed the conclusion that we had to put on a discount. So
we went back to £6 to attract more Heavy Goods Vehicles.
Q536 Mr Donohoe: So for how long is that
discount going to continue?
Mr Fanning: We announced that
we were going to continue that discount in December for the foreseeable
future. So we engaged in that in July of last year at a time when
there were road works on the M6, so after listening to the haulage
industry we put that on, and in December I announced that we were
going to continue that for the foreseeable future.
Q537 Mr Donohoe: When I first used the
road it was £2 and it is now £3 and I noticed a marked
difference in terms of the numbers that were using it. Is that
borne out by statistics?
Mr Fanning: I think our figures
are in the public domain. Our figures rose consistently throughout
last year; they rose throughout the summer, and then, as in terms
of other roads, of seasonality it dropped down towards December,
but I do not think it made any marked difference whatsoever in
terms of our traffic flow at that time. We were only of course
relieving a discount at the time and not putting the price up.
Q538 Mr Donohoe: You have the right at
any time to increase the price on that road and as a consequence
of that you would obviously look at the numbers of flows to maximise
the amount of money that you have as an income. What would you
suggest should be the maximum that you could charge on that road?
Mr Harrison: It is difficult to
say and I think probably what is important to say is that the
key to us is ensuring that the M6 toll remains a free flowing
alternative to the M6. So it is difficult to predict today what
conditions will be like in the future. We have a 50-year concession
so it is too far away.
Q539 Mr Donohoe: One of the successes
is that there is no congestion, you just go flying through it
and it is because of that that everybody is using it, but if it
were to become congested at all would there be any possibility
of being given your money back at the other end?
Mr Harrison: I do not think we
have thought of that.
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