Examination of Witnesses (Questions 660-679)
MR ARCHIE
ROBERTSON AND
MS HILARY
CHIPPING
2 FEBRUARY 2005
Q660 Mrs Ellman: What kinds of cost-benefit
analysis are you undertaking now for the proposed Expressway?
Ms Chipping: A consultation paper
on the M6 Expressway as a possible alternative to widening was
issued last July, and that invited views as to whether the Highways
Agency should be asked by the Secretary of State for Transport
to undertake further work on the Expressway. The Secretary of
State is considering those responses at the moment and, as soon
as he indicates whether he wishes the Highways Agency to do further
work on the Expressway and on the possible widening of the M6
or both, we are geared up to continue with that work. We would
then, supposing he did wish us to continue work on the Expressway,
look at a much more detailed possible route for the Expressway
and undertake a very full appraisal, as we do with all our schemes,
in line with the new approach to appraisal, so we would take account
of economic benefits, safety benefits and impacts on the environment,
and indeed we would seek to design a scheme which had least impact
on the environment.
Q661 Ian Lucas: Can we have a discussion
on road pricing? What do you think the objectives of road pricing
should be?
Mr Robertson: Two possible objectives
have been identified for road pricing at the highest level. One
is a means of tackling congestion, whether it is urban or national.
The second is, of course, road tolling as a means of paying for
additional capacity. An example of the former would be the London
congestion charge and an example of the second would be the M6
toll.
Q662 Ian Lucas: Do you see road pricing
as something that will be introduced on a national basis or on
a much more localised basis?
Mr Robertson: Certainly the Future
of Transport White Paper does envisage the possibility of
national road pricing, and indeed envisages the possibility of
getting there through a number of steps, which would include local
road pricing. To the extent that that is the Government's intention,
yes, I do see the possibility of it.
Q663 Ian Lucas: Can you tell me where,
so far as the Highways Agency is concerned, the technology is
in relation to road pricing? What sort of system are you considering
at the moment?
Mr Robertson: That is a good question
in the sense of what role the Highways Agency might play in road
pricing. In the M6 toll example, that is a matter of agreement
in the legislation on the concession that applies to the M6 toll,
so it does not apply to the Highways Agency's network. In the
case of wider tolling, I do not see an option that would have
tolling of motorways alone, on the basis that the objective is
to get traffic on to motorways and get it off the local networks
where it may cause all sorts of safety risks and all the problems
that are associated with rat-running. I see that our role is going
to be very much in terms of developing congestion charging as
it might apply in the short term to areas which would include
some parts of the Highways Agency network, and then probably not
in a different way to the whole country, should it progress as
far as that. As far as the technology is concerned, the Highways
Agency is not offering any particular insight to this but it is
following the work the Department is doing very closely and has
an interest in the work that has been done in Leeds on piloting
various schemes. We are also working closely with the Customs
and Excise work on the Lorry Road User Charging because that is
affected by the motorway network. There are other interests in
technology that start to fall in around universal road pricing
for us. There are two things that we need to do: one is to have
good information about what is happening on the network and to
be able to direct traffic and make investment decisions, and there
is a potential role for emerging technology there; and the second
is to continue to enhance the information that we make available
to motorists. In the latter it is not difficult to see that we
will shortly be providing that information into motorcars rather
than simply on signs whether static or variable. There may well
be links on technology that provide some of that. It is already
possible to buy motorcars that can send signals when their windscreen
wipers are working and you therefore know where on the network
it is raining. There are all sorts of technology possibilities
that I think we would like to see integrated rather than dispersed.
Q664 Ian Lucas: I am interested that
you seem to be ruling out separate road pricing for the motorway
network. Is that right? Do you not think that would be a sensible
move forward?
Mr Robertson: I do not envisage
pricing of the existing network. We have discussed a consultation
on the Expressway concept, which would have separate pricing of
a part of the motorway network, albeit not the Highways Agency's,
but that is where you are offering choice and where potentially
you are able to sell a service because there is a congestion or
a decongestion benefit, which is the way the M6 toll works.
Q665 Ian Lucas: Do you think that the
model of, if you like, hiving off responsibility for an area of
road, which seems to be the position with the M6 toll, is one
that sits with a national road transport policy?
Mr Robertson: I think it has to
be very carefully managed. The M6 toll was the first one that
was done in this country. I have no doubt there are lessons to
be learnt, and therefore it is not surprising to find that the
Expressway consultation and consideration of it builds on the
experience so far.
Q666 Ian Lucas: Would you like to have
more control over the M6 toll than you have?
Mr Robertson: There has not been
an issue over control of the M6 toll during the time it has been
operating.
Q667 Ian Lucas: Would you like to have
more control over the M6 toll than you have?
Mr Robertson: I cannot say no,
but I just do not know at the moment how I would exercise it.
Q668 Clive Efford: In the view of the
Highways Agency, has the M6 toll road solved more problems than
it has created?
Mr Robertson: Certainly, on the
information we have to date, it has greatly alleviated the pressures
of transport moving through the Birmingham conurbation inasmuch
as it has provided extra capacity. Whilst there are some other
impacts that have yet to be fully bottomed out because of all
the other changes going on like the road works on the M6 and changes
in the toll rates, certainly there is no doubt that the enlarged
capacity is helpful.
Q669 Clive Efford: In terms of the problems
that you have at either end, has that caused you to revise your
programme of work and road improvements across other areas?
Mr Robertson: No, it has not.
The problems at either end, as you describe it, are certainly
annoying for motorists who are trying to get in and out of there,
but I do not consider them to be more than the niggling commissioning
problems that you would have with any new piece of technology,
road network or estate. The challenges remain but there is still
a very significant demand for transport through Birmingham with
160,000 vehicles a day, 40,000 of which are going through the
M6 toll.
Q670 Clive Efford: So would the existing
road network at either end of the M6 and M6 toll road have sufficient
capacity to cope with current local traffic?
Mr Robertson: What the M6 toll
has done is to take a great deal of pressure off the M6 through
Birmingham where it is parallel with the M6 toll road, and it
appears to be taking some pressure off local roads as well. What
it does not do is tackle the congestion problems which are on
the M6 north up towards Manchester, and that is the subject of
the Expressway consultation or the possible widening of the M6.
Whilst it has had the result of increasing some of the traffic
on the M42, that has not been more than expected and, of course,
we are making investments on the M42 with the Active Traffic Management
Pilot to provide more capacity there.
Q671 Clive Efford: If you had to carry
out major improvements, for instance instead of the Expressway
to increase capacity on the M6, do you think that road charges
should be introduced on that section of the road?
Mr Robertson: That is the subject
of the consultation which the Secretary of State has put out,
and certainly there may well be a viable option in the Expressway
as a means of charging for that section of road.
Q672 Clive Efford: But, as a policy,
where major improvements to road capacity are introduced should
charges be introduced alongside that?
Mr Robertson: The Secretary of
State makes the policy and I think that is what he is considering
and being advised on through the consultation.
Q673 Clive Efford: The Highways Agency
is not advising the Government on what should be done?
Mr Robertson: We have done the
technical work which is behind the consultation document that
is out. The Secretary of State is considering the responses that
he got back on 21 October.
Q674 Clive Efford: The answer is that
you have but you are not telling us because the Secretary of State
is considering it?
Mr Robertson: What we put into
it is basically what is in the consultation document, a description
of what it would be like. It is at a very high level at this stage
and it has been much informed by the Highways Agency.
Q675 Clive Efford: You accept the statement
that we cannot build our way out of the current congestion problems
we have. Where major road works are carried out and capacity is
increased, in order that those roads do not become congested again,
what measures would you put in place to prevent that happening?
Mr Robertson: The White Paper
makes clear that in terms of tacking congestion the National Congestion
Charging Scheme is the way it is thinking.
Q676 Clive Efford: How long will it be
before we can evaluate the success of the M6 toll road?
Mr Robertson: We will publish
a further report in March, which looks at the first year with
a bit more analysis. It will not look only at the congestion impacts
but at the safety impacts as well. However, it remains the fact
that there has been so much change in the conurbation during that
first year that another six months would certainly be very useful
in terms of helping my understanding of what is going on.
Q677 Clive Efford: What about wider impact
of it? Do you evaluate impacts on the local economy?
Mr Robertson: We work with the
local authorities to evaluate the congestion impacts and with
the police and the local authorities to evaluate safety impacts.
We are not involved in the evaluation of the local economic impacts
but I am sure that local authorities are considering those very
carefully.
Q678 Clive Efford: Does the toll road
have to meet the same performance criteria as the road network?
Mr Robertson: In terms of construction
and visual standards for motorists, yes, it does.
Q679 Clive Efford: What about maintenance?
Mr Robertson: Yes, all roads do.
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