Examination of Witnesses (Questions 320-339)
19 MAY 2004
MR MARK
BROWNRIGG, MR
EDMUND BROOKES
AND MR
DONALD CHARD
Q320 Clive Efford: Is that not just a
response to public concern and public demand that politicians
take action?
Mr Brownrigg: Exactly.
Q321 Clive Efford: So to say that this
is political, as if it is something that has just come out of
the ether, is not really accurate?
Mr Brownrigg: Well, no, I am not
saying it has come out of the ether. What I am saying is that
had it been dealt with differently there would have been nothing
for the public to respond to and that was not in the operator's
hands. What I would also add is that the Community put this piece
of legislation in place before it went through the IMO.
Q322 Chairman: It is an example but it
is a bad example because in this case you were actually pushing
for a better standard, whereas what you are really saying is that
you do not want to see the situation where the Commission goes
ahead with international standards where it might necessarily
be different, not necessarily good or bad. That is really what
you are saying?
Mr Brownrigg: Yes, in a word.
What happened was that the international standard came to the
European standard.
Chairman: Good. As long as we are clear.
Miss McIntosh: I think one of you, it
must have been Mr Brookes, said that after the Braer disaster
the UK introduced a voluntary routing guide, which was then approved
by the IMO. Was it not the case that the Prestige did not follow
that, that they had no safe haven that we would have identified
by the Secretary of State's Representative?
Chairman: Forgive me, Mr Brookes, I really
do not want to go back to the Prestige.
Q323 Miss McIntosh: I think it is quite
important. It is just a yes or no. Is that a yes?
Mr Brookes: The Prestige accident
happened after the Braer incident and again it was not taken into
a safe haven.
Mr Brownrigg: There were no rules
about safe havens then.
Q324 Miss McIntosh: But now there are?
Mr Brownrigg: Yes.[1]
Q325 Miss McIntosh: Is it the case that
the master of the Prestige has not returned home, he has not been
allowed to return home yet?
Mr Brownrigg: Correct, yes.
Q326 Miss McIntosh: Is that of any concern?
Is that a good message or a bad message to your colleagues?
Mr Brownrigg: It is of considerable
concern but that is a national issue. Well, it is an international
issue as well. It is not a European issue is what I mean specifically,
but it is of considerable concern that a master can still effectively
be debarred from returning home this length of time after an accident
in which no charge has yet been brought. Sorry, a charge has been
brought but there is no charge—
Q327 Chairman: You have made these representations
presumably to the British Government and also to the European
institutions, because after all what you are saying is not irrespective
of the situation in relation to that particular master, you are
saying that this sets a precedent?
Mr Brookes: It is not, unfortunately,
the only example where this has happened. This has happened in
Pakistan.
Q328 Chairman: No, on this one, Mr Brookes,
have you made representation to the United Kingdom Government
and are you pursuing it vigorously?
Mr Brownrigg: I do not think we
have made a formal representation, although our views are known
to the Department for Transport.
Chairman: It is not good enough, Mr Brownrigg.
If it is one of your masters it is not good enough that we know
your views, is it?
Miss McIntosh: I was trying to establish
the general principle.
Q329 Chairman: I know very well what
you were doing, madam. I am trying my own line. Mr Brownrigg?
Mr Brownrigg: We have supported
representations by the European Community Shipowners' Associations.
It is on behalf of a Greek national.
Chairman: I see. Miss McIntosh, you may
now pursue your line.
Q330 Miss McIntosh: There is a general
principle of concern here though to your members?
Mr Brownrigg: Of course, yes.
Q331 Miss McIntosh: Is the price of fuel
and the additional cost of concern to your members?
Mr Brownrigg: Yes, but we have
yet to see that come through fully. The price of fuel has been
very volatile over the years and we have had to live with that.
Q332 Miss McIntosh: I think you refer
in your memorandum rather ecliptically, if that is the right word,
between the difference in approach to shipping between northern
European countries and southern European countries. I do not know
if it affects your particular members but has this situation of
access to domestic routes around the Greek Islands been resolved?
Mr Brownrigg: There was a timetable
set, the clock was ticking and that time has expired, so yes.
Q333 Miss McIntosh: Have British ships
got access to plying the trade around the Greek Islands?
Mr Brownrigg: In formal terms,
yes. I am not aware whether British operators have tried hard
to get into those routes.
Q334 Miss McIntosh: Do you have any strong
views about the European Intermodal Loading Unit?
Mr Brookes: I do have strong views
about it and I think it is a completely unnecessary proposal from
the European Commission. I have explained briefly in our evidence
why that is the case and perhaps I could just say so now. For
international worldwide transport there is the International Standards
Organisation—ISO standard containers. There are 17 million
in free circulation in the world. In Europe there is what is called
a "swap body" which is an intermodal loading unit but
which can take more pallets because it is slightly wider. The
European Commission had decided there should be a new unit, which
is described as the European Intermodal Loading Unit, to solve
this problem. Quite frankly, the problem has been already solved
by commercial shipping lines who have developed containers which
will go down the cell guides of ships and yet are pallet wide
and they can carry two standard pallets across. So there is no
need at all for this legislation and we feel that in moving it
forward it could hinder in fact the development of intermodalism
rather than let the ISO standard and "swap bodies" develop
as they have.
Q335 Miss McIntosh: Thank you. You are
quite damning in your memorandum that the Commission does tend
to focus in its EU shipping policy on interventionist activity
which is of questionable value or practicality?
Mr Brownrigg: I think we were
talking about the relationship between political interference
and the issue approach. There are lots of issues on which Community
action has been highly—
Chairman: Mr Brownrigg, we have a little
difficulty because you are interpreting "political"
as being something—
Clive Efford: Evil.
Q336 Chairman: Yes. "Political"
is a word we must define carefully. As I understand it, it means
of the people. That was its root, was it not?
Mr Brownrigg: No, I think it was
more in the sense that Mr Efford brought forward.
Q337 Miss McIntosh: So are you happy
that there is a level playing field in the world of EU shipping?
I cannot record a smile, Mr Brownrigg.
Mr Brownrigg: There is the opportunity
for a level playing field currently if you are talking about state
support and assistance and it is then down to individual governments
to choose whether they play within that opportunity.
Q338 Miss McIntosh: And on issues like
light dues and paying for the full facilities, do you continue
to make representations to our own Government?
Mr Brownrigg: I would love to
bring out all our themes, madam Chairman, but yes, we do.
Q339 Chairman: I do think I need to ask
you why you think the Commission got the business about the Intermodal
Loading Unit totally wrong. Do they have not sufficient expertise
in your subject?
Mr Brookes: I believe they have
the misguided view that by developing this unit they will develop
a new range of containers which in the long term will take over
from the International Standard Organisation, standard 20 and
40 ft or 45 ft containers.
1 Note by witness: The EU Directive 2002/59/EC
of June 2002 required member state to be prepared to ensure that
ships in distress may immediately go to a place of refuge. More
detailed guidelines were issued by IMO in its Resolution A.949(23),
adopted in December 2003. Back
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