Examination of Witnesses (Questions 120-130)
BRITISH COUNCIL
25 MAY 2004
Q120 Judy Mallaber: What sort of number
of institutions in this country are we talking about?
Mr Kemp: Nick, you have been looking
at this.
Mr Butler: To be honest, we do
not know. I think we have the impression that there are possibly
2,000 to 3,000 private education providers operating in some form
or other, but we are in discussions with the Home Office and DfES
at this very moment discussing this and trying to put together,
as I mentioned, this register of bone fide institutions
which will be complete by the end of the year.
Q121 Judy Mallaber: Does the British
Council liaise with professional organisations to discuss with
them the potential for educational opportunities in these other
countries?
Mr Kemp: Yes, one of the statistics
we have is number of examinations and we manage a large number
of professional examinations overseas each year. The British Council
itself manages one million examinations overseas out of a probable
total from the UK of three million. ACCA, for example, have 150,000
students studying outside the UK, of which I think we manage about
80,000 exams, something like that, so, yes, we do talk with them,
we work with the Institute of Civil Engineers, for example, and
other professional bodies, the surgeons but it varies a lot in
country.
Mr Upton: Those comments are absolutely
appropriate. This is a mixture of examinations provision, specialist
advice, the use of the agent network. For example in Thailand
there is a whole range of institutions that we have relationships
with which provide professional qualifications and we also work
with those in country, in the UK, and we also work with the visa
section to clarify their status if necessary.
Mr Butler: Recently I was contacted
by the Institute of Exporters who up to the present moment do
not export qualifications overseas, which is interesting. We obviously
are in discussions with them as to how we can help them with their
work overseas and also recently the Institute of Motor Engineering.
We are constantly approached by the professional bodies and we
provide support where appropriate.
Q122 Judy Mallaber: How does it work?
Does the professional organisation take a cut out of the institution
overseas that is doing the training or do they provide distance
learning skills or a whole range?
Mr Kemp: A whole range. The ACCA
provide hard copy for study but then there might be local tutors
that are providing support, whether it is with ACCA agreement
or not. Similarly with London University externals, they are mainly
mailed out reading lists with, in theory, no local tutor support,
you have just got your exams at the end, but then there will always
be some enterprising local tutor who will see an opportunity and
offer those.
Q123 Chairman: What about institutions
like the OU which is the premier distance learning institution?
Mr Kemp: OU has 30,000 students
outside the UK. I did not check but I have got the number of how
many in ASEAN nations somewhere. They are very active and very
successful.
Q124 Chairman: Some institutions like
Heriot-Watt.
Mr Kemp: Heriot-Watt is brilliant.
Q125 Chairman: I was there on Thursday
night. It is my old university of course.
Mr Kemp: Great. In fact, the head
of Heriot-Watt, John Archer, chairs the educational counselling
service we have that represents a large number of UK institutions
globally. Heriot-Watt have got 10,000 students on their MBA programmes
overseas. That is what John was saying last week and they are
very successful. The Scottish Interactive University is also developing
a good suite of products that will be delivered globally including
at the school level, and their Scholar programmes are really good.
Q126 Mr Berry: What are the three most
significant additional things that the UK Government could do
to promote British education in South East Asia? What is on your
wish list?
Mr Kemp: If I could start off
with mine and then I am sure my colleagues have got another three.
The `biggie' is to keep the pressure on marketing the UK generically,
its educational excellence and all the diversity that goes with
it. I keep coming back to the point that even in well-established
markets it is the country of education destination and the quality
of qualification that is so strong in this. So that is one of
the big things, continuing investment in the education UK brand
and the generic marketing. That is my first start.
Mr Upton: Just from a country's
perspective overseas—to be making sure there is sufficient
funding for an integrated marketing and strategic campaign to
promote UK education. As we move into a far more competitive environment
unless we are investing wisely in a marketing and promotion campaign
we will lose out. The actual return that we get is phenomenal.
For the amount of money that has gone into the promotional campaign
for PMI the actual return in terms of number of students is a
remarkable achievement so funding for a multi-campaign. Two, joining
up and making sure that we have a strategic approach that brings
all the key players together within the UK and making sure that
is replicated overseas, so strategic integration. And finally,
something that really matters, making sure that we care for the
international students who come here because the pastoral care
for international students is so crucial and that is one of the
key things, when these students come back, they talk about how
they felt, how they were valued, as well as the course. If we
have those three then we will remain what we want to be, which
is world class.
Mr Butler: On a less strategic
level there is the promotion of the excellence in IT and education
which the DfES is developing at the moment and which goes down
extremely well overseas. I think that is an area where we need
to continue to be showing that the UK has excellence in this area.
Q127 Mr Berry: Out of personal interest
how do you view Vietnam as an emerging market for British education?
Mr Kemp: Long term, ten years,
it is potentially good.
Q128 Mr Berry: Ten years is not that
long.
Mr Kemp: In 2015 you can begin
to see it. The reason I say that is that there is still a relatively
low higher education participation rate, the GDP growth is good
but purchasing power parity is still very low and until we get
that real incomes growth we are not going to take off. It is growing
and it grew, admittedly from a small base, by about 35% last year.
Mr Butler: No, over 50%, from
205 to 330 students.
Mr Kemp: In higher education.
Mr Butler: Not an enormous number.
Q129 Chairman: Outside of the indigenous
languages it is a francophone country so would France be the competition
there, do you think?
Mr Kemp: It could be. It goes
back to something that has been reinforced particularly by Peter
about word of mouth, family and friends. Because they have got
family and friends in France, it makes it seem more accessible.
It is funny I was in Brussels last night with some of my colleagues
from the Czech and Slovak Republics and Poland and they were saying
that they are getting Vietnamese coming to their countries to
study because they have an associated history from the days of
the Soviet Union and the Socialist tie-up with Vietnam and that
has hung over. They are noticing quite a steady flow of Vietnamese
into Eastern Europe. I was surprised.
Mr Butler: My impression in terms
of francophone is yes, the older generation were francophone but
the contact I have had recently with officials and young people
is that they want to speak English and therefore we will find
they will be looking for an English-speaking destination.
Q130 Chairman: On that note, thank you
very much for your time. I hope you did not come just to see us,
Mr Upton!
Mr Upton: I was here anyway.
Chairman: Thank you very much. It is
very useful to have someone hotfoot from the area we are interested
in and once again thank you for the help and co-operation you
gave us when we were there, which was extremely helpful. It is
useful to get this backdrop of hard facts rather than just individual
experience and that will help us in the work that we are doing.
If we need any additional information we will be in touch for
hard copy. Thank you very much.
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