|
Mr. Knight: The Minister has answered the debate well, but I have three points. First, the EU directive is a minimalist requirement, so will she assure the Committee that the Government will keep an eye out for best practice overseas? There may be some developments in other countries where, by making sure that drivers know a little bit more about first aid, lives are saved. Secondly, will she touch upon the desirability of ensuring that every driving test applicant knows the basics of car operation? With that, if they were to find themselves stranded because a minor fault has developed on their car, they would be more likely to rectify it and move on their way. I have forgotten the third point.
Charlotte Atkins: I am grateful for those remarks. We will keep an eye out for best practice, because it is important to raise those issues.
Column Number: 219
On vehicle safety, and ensuring that one knows how a vehicle works, we added vehicle safety questions to the start of the practical test in 2003. Knowledge of tyre pressure, for example, is vital to the prevention of accidents. I am not sure that I would go along with the gender stereotyping implied by the comment made earlier by an hon. Gentleman, because in my experience, girls are just as knowledgeable as boys about cars. I am sure that gender stereotyping was not intended and it was just a coincidence that the car to which the hon. Gentleman referred contained young girls.
I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, Central will withdraw his amendment. We want to explore the subject of the amendment, not just because it makes sense for people to know first aid as drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists in particular, as they are likely to come off their bike, but it is a skill that we need in our everyday lives. I have been in domestic situations in which I wished I had had more competence in first aid.
Mr. Fisher: I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for her reply. I must confess that I was steeling myself for her saying that the amendment was defective; I was a little taken aback for being told that I am a defective parent.
Charlotte Atkins: I thought my hon. Friend accepted that.
Mr. Fisher: I am very self-critical, but I will pass that comment on to my children, and see whether they agree with the Minister. She is an old and dear friend, and we have adjoining constituencies. I suspect that she did not mean it to be a cruel remark, but I will consult my children, all of whom are also probably inadequate at first aid, in spite of their having passed their driving tests many years ago.
Charlotte Atkins: My child would agree that I am a defective parent.
Mr. Fisher: I was slightly more disappointed by the thrust of the Minister's rejection. At times, it veered towards the point made by the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Mr. Wilshire) that we should leave first aid to the experts. I would have been slightly happier had she left the door a bit more ajar, and recognised that the requirement in the driving test is pretty loose. Most of us can get on to the road and pass the technical, manual sides of the driving test without knowing much about first aid. Perhaps I misinterpreted the Minister's remarks, but I hope that she will recognise that things are not perfect at present. The amendments may not be precisely what is needed to toughen up and beef up the requirements, but I hope that she will keep an open mind on the matter.
An interesting point was made by the hon. Member for Caithness and Kinross—
John Thurso: Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross.
Column Number: 220
Mr. Fisher: The name of the hon. Gentleman's constituency is a poem in itself. I should know it by now. He made a good point about commercial practice.
Charlotte Atkins: My hon. Friend did not listen. In fact, I said that I wanted to think about his amendments, as he made a valuable suggestion. Certainly, first aid courses for commercial drivers are something to consider. I accept that the theory test could be beefed up to ensure that drivers have more basic knowledge. My point was that more of us—drivers, parents, pedestrians, cyclists—should consider taking first aid courses.
Mr. Fisher: I am glad to have that robust reassurance, and I suspect that the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross is as well. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Chope: I have just one question for the Minister. Can she explain the circumstances in which she will use the regulation-making power being granted by clause 26?
Charlotte Atkins: The clause will introduce more flexibility in regulation-making powers in respect of driving tests. For instance, we would try to ensure that we adopted the user-pay principle for fees. At present, some 45 per cent. of practical test appointments are for re-tests, for which there is only the standard fee. The clause would enable greater flexibility so that we could conduct business in respect of driving tests in a better way.
Another example is driving schools booking many tests. The current legislation is very much based on the old-style idea of the test applicant booking just one appointment, whereas increasingly, because of the way in which commercial drivers work and are trained, it may be sensible for a driving school to book a whole range of driving tests.
There may also be situations in which an examiner, having seen a test candidate's licence, would want to ask that it be surrendered. The clause would allow us to clamp down on driver licence and identity fraud. The new provision will enable examiners to remove suspect licences from circulation if checks reveal a problem. It provides more flexibility and is a sensible way forward. It will ensure that the people who create more costs for the Driving Standards Agency, rather than all other applicants, bear them.
Mr. Chope: I am grateful to the Minister for that explanation. Can she confirm that the powers would not be used to enable bulk buying at a discount or block booking by large driving schools, which might result in disadvantage to small, individual-person driving schools? She mentioned bulk buying and block booking, which immediately raise the spectre of discounted rates and the squeezing out of small
Column Number: 221
businesses and individual operators. Can the Minister assure us that the powers being taken under the clause will not be used in a discriminatory way against small, one-man band—or one-person band—driving schools.
11.15 am
Charlotte Atkins: I can certainly give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. Instead of all-or-nothing rearrangements of appointments, it will be possible for partial refunds to be made. At present it is all or nothing; a full refund or nothing. Clearly it would make sense for the Driving Standards Agency to be able to deduct an administration fee in the 45 per cent. of practical test appointments that are rearrangements, so those who insist on rebooking the appointment will pay a small fee. That is the idea, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that it will not discriminate against small driving schools.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 26 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 27
Disqualification until test is passed
Charlotte Atkins: I beg to move amendment No. 70, in clause 27, page 37, line 17, leave out subsection (6) and insert—
'(6) After subsection (13) insert—
''(13A) Before making an order under subsection (3) above the Secretary of State must consult with such representative organisations as he thinks fit.''.'.
This is a technical amendment that has arisen because, sadly, there has been a drafting mistake. The amendment provides for the wording in subsection (6) to be removed and replaced with a provision that requires the Secretary of State to consult such organisations as he thinks fit before making an order under section 36 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
Subsection (6) of the clause amends section 88 of the Act to require that regulations under section 36 are subject to consultation with the interested parties. However, the subsection is technically wrong, because section 88 relates to regulations made under part III of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, whereas subsection (6) falls within part II of the Act. It is merely a technical amendment, which arose out of an error, and I ask the Committee to accept it.
Amendment agreed to.
Clause 27, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 28
Granting of full licence
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Column Number: 222
Mr. Knight: I want to ask a constituency question, which I hope the Minister will answer on this clause or the next one. A constituent who is going overseas has a licence that is valid but registered to him at his old address. He has just moved house. He has asked me whether he should send his licence off now or wait until he comes back from holiday.
Can the Minister tell us, for the record, what the average turnaround time is for someone submitting a licence merely to register a change of address? In other words, how long will my constituent be without his licence if he posts it off to register the new address? Will it be a couple of weeks or longer?
Mr. Chope: Paragraph 88 of the notes on clauses says:
''The power to impose conditions on licences would be used, for example, in relation to a driver who had previously been disqualified from driving for a drink driving offence, but had agreed to a court order allowing him to participate in an alcohol ignition interlock programme (as provided for by Clause 14). The condition would require the driver to drive only in accordance with the alcohol ignition interlock programme.''
That is an example, but the clause seems to grant much wider powers. Unless I am corrected by the Minister, I believe that one of those powers would be to force learner drivers off the road if they had not passed their test by a specified time. We have introduced similar powers in relation to motor cyclists. Can she confirm that the power in the clause could be used to force a person with L-plates to take a test, for which they could have their driving licence removed if they failed?
| 
