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Mr. Jamieson: The clause makes it an offence to supply vehicle number plates that do not comply with regulations on the typeface, dimensions, colouring and British standard. Members of the Committee will know that number plates that are not standard—that have been customised in some way—are often difficult to read. If there has been an accident, or the police want to check up on somebody, it can be difficult to identify people, particularly in the case of hit-and-run accidents, which, sadly, are all too common. It may be difficult to read some number plates in certain circumstances, so there are good reasons for the clause and the new requirements.
Mr. Chope: Does that apply to foreign vehicles? For example, if a foreign lorry with one of those very small, unreadable number plates is involved in an accident that results in a number plate being damaged, would the replacement number plate installed by a British supplier have to be of a size that conforms with the standard that we regard as essential in this country?
Mr. Jamieson: Only if the vehicle were then being registered in this country. After 12 months, it would have to be registered in this country and, obviously, the number plate would have to comply with regulations. If the vehicle is registered in another country and is only here for short periods of time, it does not need to have a British registration mark but would have to provide one from the country of origin.
Mr. Chope: Why is it that we allow foreign vehicles to have indistinguishable number plates while we impose draconian penalties, not only on the people who are using number plates that do not comply with our own regulations but on those who supply them?
Mr. Jamieson: I suppose that if British vehicles were driven in mainland Europe or other parts of the world, people might think that our number plates were fairly indistinguishable. I agree that ours generally look extremely clear, especially if one is British and used to them.
We are trying to achieve some commonality within the European Union, which makes sense. Common recognition of plates would be better for enforcing the law within the Union. However, at present, there is no question of the 25 countries in the Union having totally standardised plates.
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The hon. Member for Christchurch asked what would go on the plate. We are still consulting on which flag can appear on the plate—whether a Union jack, Welsh dragon or whatever—and whether there can be a nation mark. This has presented quite a lot of difficulties, on which I shall not elaborate now, in the United Kingdom, but not in Europe. As hon. Members know from other contexts, flags are a sensitive issue in certain parts of the United Kingdom, and we are still trying to resolve some of those issues.
Mr. Chope: I know that the Minister is very tolerant, but is he intolerant of the officials and, perhaps, his colleagues from other parts of the UK for having stalled the implementation of the changes that were promised—in good faith, I am sure—to the House of Commons in 2001? It is now 2005; when will that issue be brought to a conclusion?
Mr. Jamieson: I am somewhat impatient, but the matter has to be resolved fully and properly. If the hon. Gentleman wants to talk in further detail about that, I shall happily do so, but I do not want to detain the Committee any longer than necessary.
The hon. Member for Spelthorne quite properly made the point that we do not want number plates to have a plethora of information on them, other than that needed to identify the vehicle and the supplier of the plate, which is not necessarily the dealer that sold the vehicle. I am anxious that we do not have a lot of clutter on plates; only information that is absolutely essential.
The right hon. Member for East Yorkshire, with all of his knowledge on such matters, may know of certain show plates, which people might want to put on their bedroom wall or wherever and are not intended for a motor vehicle. Goodness knows why people want those, but they certainly do. Those will have to be clearly marked ''not suitable to go on a vehicle'' or words to that effect, demonstrating that they are not legal plates to use on a vehicle. There is quite a market in these, and we do not want to spoil it. However, we do not want a loophole to appear so that those plates can appear on vehicles.
John Thurso: I wonder whether the Minister would clarify what he said about show plates. Coming from an agricultural part of the world, I notice that many tractors like to have the proper legal plates fore and aft, while often in the cab there will be a plate with the name of the farm or the driver. Are those show plates illegal, or is it legal to have them in the cab? Does the legislation affect them?
Mr. Jamieson: I have no doubt that that should be legal. In such cases, having a proper number plate in the proper place on the vehicle is different from having something that looks a little like a number plate but clearly is not. There are certain number plates containing digits and letters that make up someone's name, for example, that could be a real number plate. If it had ''Farmer Giles's Farm'' on it, no one could mistake it for a real number plate, but there are some plates that actually look like someone's name. We want those clearly marked, so that they could not be
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taken from the cab and used on the vehicle. Of course, if the vehicle is used entirely off the road, there is nothing to stop someone putting those plates on it.
The right hon. Member for East Yorkshire wants to know whether the provision will be retrospective. It will not be, so people's existing plates will not be affected. It is a good and useful little clause, and I hope that the Committee will accept it.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 34 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 35
Extension to Scotland and Northern Ireland
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Chope: I am delighted that the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, who represents a Scottish constituency—if not half of Scotland—wishes to join the debate. It is quite a significant move, in so far as we are legislating for Scotland and Northern Ireland in one clause in a substantial way without there being any Scottish Minister present to explain the implications. I would be interested to know what consultation there has been about the extension to Scotland and Northern Ireland in the way suggested in the clause.
4.45 pm
John Thurso: That is a straightforward question. The proper convention would be the Sewel convention of the Scottish Parliament, where devolved legislation is being enacted at Westminster, as this would appear to be. Can the Minister confirm that there is or is likely to be a Sewel on this clause?
Mr. Jamieson: This is quite an important little clause. At present, particularly in the north of England, it is possible to trot across the border and get oneself a number plate, without having to show one's own identification or the identification on the vehicle, which is a bit of a loophole. That is also true of Northern Ireland. It is particularly a problem in the border area, because one set of rules applies south of the border and another north of the border.
Originally it was thought that the Bill was a devolved matter. Sometimes, because of the complexities between various parts of the United Kingdom, the talents of those who draw up the laws are extended. However, we know now that it is a reserved matter for Westminster. It is simply a matter of bringing Scotland and Northern Ireland into line. It is my understanding that separate consultation exercises have been conducted in Scotland and Northern Ireland, and in both instances the proposal to extend the regulation of number plate suppliers was well received and generally well supported. Therefore, it is simply a matter of closing a loophole. I think that there was a misinterpretation in the first instance. It is
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important that the need to check up when one buys a number plate appertains to all parts of the United Kingdom.
John Thurso: I have no problem if this is a reserved matter. I did not bring my well-thumbed copy of the Scotland Act with me, so I cannot look at schedule 5 and the headings therein to check whether what the Minister has said is accurate. However, I know that there is considerable confusion on occasions between Westminster and Holyrood; Holyrood seems to think that things are devolved and Westminster seems to think that they are not. I am grateful for the Minister's assurance, but could he let me know the precise heading under which the Bill is deemed to be reserved rather than devolved. At first glance it falls into the category of justice—perhaps if I keep going for a moment, he will be inspired—which is broadly a devolved matter. It is important that, were a Sewel required, the convention is adhered to.
Mr. Knight: Will the Minister confirm that no discussions are taking place that seek to extend the rules on number plates beyond these islands? Will he confirm, for example, that no discussions are taking place in the European Union to harmonise vehicle registration plates across the EU?
Mr. Jamieson: I am told that no Sewel motion is required, because this is deemed, as a reserved matter, to be for Westminster. It has been agreed that it is a reserved matter. I think that there was some discussion as to whether it was or was not, but now it has been accepted on both sides of the border that it is, so it does not attract the attentions of a Sewel motion.
I have entirely forgotten what the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire said.
Mr. Knight: My question was about Europe and the harmonisation of registration plates.
Mr. Jamieson: There is absolutely no discussion of this matter, certainly on format and presentation. We are considering how we can recognise another country's plates, which is much more important. I am not sure that harmonisation takes us any further forward. What is important is that an automatic number plate recognition camera can pick up the various number plates from other countries in the European Union and vice versa; that other countries can pick up ours. That is far more important than harmonisation.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 35 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
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