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Mr. Banks: I was probably more libertarian than anyone on the Conservative Benches in this Committee, because I was not expecting there somehow to be an enormous proliferation of casinos. I wanted matters taken care of through the planning process, but we will return to this debate. I do not mind being accused of being a neo-fascist.
The Chairman: Order. Let us return to the clause.
Mr. Hawkins: I must apologise, because I was tempted away from the subject, as has often been the experience of many hon. Members down the years, by the wit and humour of the hon. Gentleman. I have made my point. It is philosophical, but valid in light of the way in which the clause and, in particular, subsection (2) are drafted.
Mr. Caborn: The hon. Gentleman has accused me of massacring the English language. May I gently remind him that ''forgetting'' is probably a better way of expressing himself than ''misremembering''? I also give him the reassurance that consultation will take place; there is no doubt about that.
May I put on record in this stand part debate the fact that the clause allows the Secretary of State to make regulations to reduce or limit the repetitive play of lotteries? That applies where people have the opportunity to enter a number of lotteries in succession. The Government consider there to be a need for this provision, as we have real concerns about fast-draw lotteries, whether carried out by those running society or charitable lotteries, or as part of the national lottery.
The Budd report looked at the issue of fast-draw lotteries and concluded that they should be strictly controlled. It saw a particular problem with the possibility of more frequent lotteries in social environments, such as pubs, bars or cafes, which are not of course premises to which people go primarily to gamble. The Government share that concern. We recognise that the sale of lottery tickets through fast-draw lotteries may well increase lottery revenues. However, such games offer the opportunity to play repeatedly and rapidly and to chase losses, particularly
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when the minimum age for lottery play will be 16, as an exception to the general age limit of 18. Therefore, in line with the prudent approach adopted for gaming machines, the Government are minded that regulations under this clause should introduce a limit of one lottery an hour for lotteries promoted in circumstances that appear to encourage or facilitate repetitive play.
The Committee may also find it helpful to know that the Government propose to introduce similar restrictions on lotteries promoted under the national lottery.
Mr. Hawkins: Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Caborn: No, there is a lack of time.
Under the clause, the Secretary of State may attach a condition to lottery operating licences, make the gambling commission attach a specified condition to a lottery operating licence and add additional specified conditions to the conditions applicable to exempt lotteries. The Secretary of State's powers must be directed at reducing the temptation or limiting the opportunity for a person to enter lotteries repetitively, and that is what we are minded to do.
By way of explanation, the speed at which those lotteries can run is, in a pub, every 30 seconds. That is a repetitive lottery, and we believe that it would lead to real problem gambling.
Mr. Hawkins: I now understand why the Minister would not give way earlier. Would it not be easier just to take the powers to ban fast-draw lotteries, rather than take the wide powers over all lotteries as drafted in subsections (1) and (2)?
Mr. Caborn: No, because we have tried to future-proof the provisions, and we are not quite sure how they will be adopted in the future. We therefore believe that the wording protects against problem gambling. I do not think that there should be any disagreement about that.
Mr. Moss: The Minister referred to an interval of one hour between successive plays. Is that in the Bill?
It being twenty-five minutes past Eleven o'clock, The Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
Adjourned till this day at half-past Two o'clock.
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