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Vera Baird (Redcar) (Lab): That is a very interesting point. Is the chief constable any worse off than under the previous arrangement?
Mr. Grieve: He is much better off.
Vera Baird: Indeed; then I am not following the hon. Gentleman's point.
Mr. Grieve: It seems to me that under the clause, for the period from 1998 to the present day, a chief constable is much better off, because as from the date when the Bill comes into operation, he will not longer have to go into the dock or be personally responsible
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for any offence that may have been committed between 1998 and the measure's coming into force; however, the connivance clauses, which are an important part of the health and safety legislation, still do not bite on him, because they cannot be made to apply retrospectively. That is what I think has happened.
Vera Baird: I think that that is right.
Mr. Grieve: I am most grateful to the hon. and learned Lady. I shall now discover, when the Minister writes to me, that we are both wrong.
I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 135 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 136 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule 11
Investigations into conduct of police officers: accelerated procedure in special cases
Amendments made: No. 269, in schedule 11, page 180, line 19, after '20B(3)', insert 'or 20E(3)'.
No. 270, in schedule 11, page 181, line 12, at end insert—
'(5A) After submitting a report under this paragraph, the person appointed or designated to investigate the complaint or recordable conduct matter shall continue his investigation to such extent as he considers appropriate.'.
No. 271, in schedule 11, page 182, line 4, after '(b)', insert
'subject to any request made under paragraph 20G(1),'.
No. 272, in schedule 11, page 183, line 19, leave out from 'shall' to end of line 21 and insert
'notify the appropriate authority and the person appointed under paragraph 18 or designated under paragraph 19 of its determination.'.
No. 273, in schedule 11, page 183, line 38, after '(b)', insert
'subject to any request made under paragraph 20G(1),'.
No. 274, in schedule 11, page 184, line 10, leave out from 'shall' to end of line 11 and insert
'notify the person appointed under paragraph 16 or 17 of its determination.'.
No. 275, in schedule 11, page 184, line 39, leave out from beginning to end of line 5 on page 185 and insert—
'20G (1) On receiving a copy of a special report under paragraph 20B(5) or 20E(5), the Director of Public Prosecutions may request the appropriate authority not to bring disciplinary proceedings without his prior agreement, if the Director considers that bringing such proceedings might prejudice any future criminal proceedings.'.—[Ms Blears.]
Schedule 11, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 137 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule 12
Investigations of deaths and serious injuries during or after contact with the police
Amendments made: No. 276, in schedule 12, page 194, leave out lines 13 to 15.
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No. 277, in schedule 12, page 194, line 19, at end insert
'( ) send to it (or each of them) a copy of the submission under sub-paragraph (1).'.
No. 278, in schedule 12, page 194, leave out lines 32 to 34.
No. 279, in schedule 12, page 194, line 37, after 'determination', insert
'and send to that authority a copy of the submission under sub-paragraph (3)'.
No. 280, in schedule 12, page 195, line 4, leave out 'as a conduct matter' and insert
'under paragraph 11 as a conduct matter (and the other provisions of this Schedule shall apply in relation to that matter accordingly)'.
No. 281, in schedule 12, page 195, leave out lines 5 to 12.
No. 282, in schedule 12, page 196, line 40, leave out from beginning to end of line 38 on page 197 and insert—
'24B (1) If the Commission determines under paragraph 24A(4) that the report indicates that a person serving with the police may have—
(a) committed a criminal offence, or
(b) behaved in a manner which would justify the bringing of disciplinary proceedings,
it shall notify the appropriate authority in relation to the person whose conduct is in question of its determination and, if it appears that that authority has not already been sent a copy of the report, send a copy of the report to that authority.
(2) Where the appropriate authority in relation to the person whose conduct is in question is notified of a determination by the Commission under sub-paragraph (1), it shall record the matter under paragraph 11 as a conduct matter (and the other provisions of this Schedule shall apply in relation to that matter accordingly).'.
No. 283, in schedule 12, page 197, line 39, after '24C', insert '(1)'.
No. 284, in schedule 12, page 197, line 46, after 'desirable', insert—
'(2) Sub-paragraph (1) does not affect any power of the Commission to make recommendations or give advice under section 10(1)(e) in other cases (whether arising under this Schedule or otherwise).'.
No. 285, in schedule 12, page 197, line 47, leave out paragraph 25.—[Ms Blears.]
Schedule 12, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 138
Abolition of Royal Parks Constabulary
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con): In a previous political incarnation, I was chairman of Westminster city council's environment committee. In that capacity, I had regular meetings with the management of the royal parks. An important part of those meetings was the security of the parks, and an important part of that was the role played by the Royal Parks constabulary, which the clause will abolish. I am not saying that that is necessarily the wrong thing to do, but certain questions arise.
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I think that the Royal Parks constabulary had a lesser pay scale than the Metropolitan police. It was also a bit more cuddly and friendly than the Metropolitan police; its officers did not carry batons and tended to wear traditional uniform, rather than dayglo, when walking round the parks. They were very helpful, dealt with an enormous number of tourists and played an important part in running the capital.
We cannot underestimate how important the royal parks are to the capital; they cater to tourists, and provide a green lung and a little environmental space for Londoners. One aspect that we often take for granted, however, is the security, which I saw at first hand. The Royal Parks constabulary, as cuddly and friendly as its officers may have looked, was very effective at running the parks and maintaining a sense of security. If there were a spate of crimes, however, that trust and confidence could be lost very quickly.
Has the Minister had consultations with the Metropolitan police to ensure that the officers who will replace the Royal Parks constabulary are dedicated and have the same desire to be involved with the local community? Will they be dedicated to the parks, so that they will not be pulled away if there is an emergency in another part of the capital? One idea might be to have a force of dedicated community support officers for the royal parks, but I do not know. The important point is to address such issues, because if confidence is lost, things could go very badly, very quickly.
Mr. Heath: Following on from the remarks by the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly), I may say that this is an organisational, rather than a statutory matter. However, is it the Minister's intention that some of the officers in the Royal Parks constabulary will be absorbed by the Metropolitan police as constables? I gather that some may become CSOs attached to the Met. Will they form a distinct district in the Met or will they be absorbed into the districts in which the parks are situated?
Ms Blears: I am delighted that hon. Members hold the policing of the royal parks in such esteem and affection. The parks are an important asset to the country, as has been said, for residents and workers in London as well as for tourists, and we all appreciate them.
In recent years, however, because the Royal Parks constabulary has been separate from the rest of the policing service, it has sometimes not been as attractive a place to work as the mainstream service. Moving the Royal Parks constabulary into the organisational framework of the Metropolitan police will make the job more attractive.
The proposal also has elements to do with community policing in our parks, which is important. In the past year, as we have worked up to the change, there has been a co-policing arrangement with the Met whereby PCSOs have been introduced alongside the Royal Parks constabulary. The skills and attitude of the PCSOs—the guidance, relationship building, directing of tourists to where they want to go and so on—have been exactly what hon. Members have
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wanted. The proposal will be an improvement for parks policing, because there will be access to the full range of the Met's ability yet that important neighbourhood attitude will be retained.
How things will be organised is an operational matter for the commissioner rather than a matter for me, but I am sure that he is acutely aware of the need to provide an appropriate service and ensure that the parks remain safe and attractive places for tourists and residents to visit.
Many of the current officers will transfer as constables. Some will become PCSOs and some will become other employees of the Met. I assure hon. Members that the policing of the parks will remain a priority because of their importance to the community.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 138 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Schedule 13 agreed to.
Clause 139 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 140
Criminal record certificates
Amendments made: No. 38, in clause 140, page 106, line 3, leave out 'England and Wales' and insert
'any part of the United Kingdom'.
No. 39, in clause 140, page 108, line 25, leave out from 'person' to end of line 28 and insert—
'(a) if the applicant is not included in a specified children's list, of that fact;
(b) if the applicant is included in such a list, of the details prescribed for the purposes of section 113C(1)(b) above;
(c) if the applicant is not subject to a specified children's direction, of that fact;
(d) if the applicant is subject to such a direction, of the grounds on which the direction was given and the details prescribed for the purposes of section 113C(1)(d) above.'.
No. 40, in clause 140, page 108, line 44, after 'statement''', insert ', ''specified children's direction'''.
No. 41, in clause 140, page 110, line 7, leave out from 'Act' to end of line 9 and insert
'of 1997 in connection with consideration by a court of whether to make a special guardianship order under section 14A of the Children Act 1989.'.—[Ms Blears.]
Clause 140, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
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