Fourteenth Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation |
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Mr. Carmichael: I just about understand the Minister’s answer to the hon. Member for North Down, although it requires some logical gymnastics to do so. He has not, however, answered my second question, which is why he believed it to be necessary to include the power to prohibit the filling of casual vacancies. Mr. Pearson: It is not particularly helpful to fill casual vacancies in what will hopefully be a relatively short transitional period, when our objective after the May local elections is for the Policing Board to begin the process of establishing the new DPPs. Following the council elections, the council will decide who the political members will be, and the Policing Board will advertise for the 226 independent members. The council appointees will recommend a shortlist of independent members to the Policing Board, which will have the final say on those members while ensuring that the overall DPP is representative. That is the process that needs to be gone through. We estimate that the process will take about six months, but it is very much a transitional period. Column Number: 12 Mr. Luff: For the sake of clarification, the Minister is talking of May local elections, which assumes, perhaps accurately, that an order will be passed on Monday that brings the date forward to May. Mr. Pearson: The hon. Gentleman is entirely correct. In practice, the time scale of six months would not allow vacancies to be filled easily. There is no system of reserves, so there would have to be an appointment process. I want to clarify the issues raised about convictions. The legislation amends the power in the 2000 Act which removes a member from office who is convicted of a criminal offence after their appointment. As the hon. Member for North Down recognised, we are amending the power so that someone who was guilty of a criminal offence before he was appointed to the Policing Board would not be permitted to be a member of a district policing partnership. There was a case last year in which those circumstances arose. As a result, the Policing Board introduced a policy to deal with the issue. What we are doing is putting that policy into legislation that is sensible and has been widely welcomed. The only point that I have not addressed is that raised by the hon. Member for East Londonderry about timing. I assure him that the legislation fixes the problem of a transitional period, not just for the period following the local elections this year but for the period following future local elections. In the future, we will not need a similar piece of legislation to deal with the transitional problem. I think that I have answered the questions raised. Lady Hermon: The hon. Member for Cardiff, West (Kevin Brennan) queried whether the difficulty applied in theory rather than in practice. With the greatest respect to the hon. Gentleman, I say that local council elections in Northern Ireland are always tightly contested and may well bring about a change in the complexion of a council. It was always the intention of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 that political members should be drawn from the council that they serves. The consequence of the order will be to change the balance in DPPs for a transitional period. The Minister has rightly identified the fact that transitional periods can be lengthy. Mr. Pearson: We are trying to ensure continuity. Why are we changing the balance? If nobody dies or resigns, the membership of the DPP will continue to be the membership of the DPP after 5 May and until the end of the transitional period when the new DPP is constituted. There has not been any change in balance. We are talking about exactly the same people. Lady Hermon: I know that the Minister intends to be helpful, but that is a curious reality. The 2000 Act was passed before I joined the House in 2001. I find it more than curious that the 2000 Act did not contain any transitional measures. I suspect that the intention of the Government at that time was that there should be no transitional measures and that DPPs should be freshly elected. With respect to the hon. Member for
I am saying to the Minister with great sincerity that I do not want there to be a series of judicial review actions after the local council elections. I am a great fan of the draftsman’s office, particularly in Northern Ireland, but I am sorry to say that the drafting of the order was not good. It leaves too many questions unanswered and leaves room for those who wish to take judicial review proceedings to do so. I am disappointed about that, and I cannot support the order. Mr. Pearson: In answer to the point about judicial review, we do not believe that the legislation is defective in any way. We are confident that it does what it says on the tin, which is allow the continuity of DPPs. I cannot comment on the detail of the 2000 Act, but I believe that it is right and proper that we have continuity in arrangements such as district policing partnerships. Perhaps it would have been better if the 2000 Act had written that in. In most organisations, there is a time when one needs to build up skills and expertise if one is to perform a role in that organisation. It is important that there should be continuity. I hope that there will be a significant degree of continuity in the appointment process as well, so that the valuable experience and commitment of existing DPP members is reflected in the composition of the new DPPs. Mr. Campbell: The hon. Member for North Down has voiced her reluctance to support the legislation and put forward her reasons for that. The Minister said
Mr. Pearson: No political parties expressed any reservations in the consultation on the draft order, and the DPPs very much welcomed what we are trying to achieve. There was a 12-week consultation on the code of practice for the appointment of independent members to DPPs, and we have addressed those issues in the order. I am not aware of anybody who has any problem with the intention of the legislation. The order is not defective in any way. Indeed, it will be welcomed so that there will be continuity of membership of DPPs. Lady Hermon: I am genuinely grateful to the Minister, as he is taking a lot of time to address the issues raised this morning. Does he agree that guidance should be issued to councils about the operation of the order following local council elections? It would certainly address my concerns if clear guidance were given on how the legislation will operate. That would also address the point made by the hon. Member for Cardiff, West, and the genuine point that the hon. Member for East Londonderry rightly made about the desire for continuity; I also want continuity of DPPs, but without judicial review. Will the Minister assure me that guidance will be issued to councils? Mr. Pearson: The legislation is straightforward, but I understand that the Policing Board will give guidance to councils and DPPs. I am sure that any concerns that she still has about the legislation can be addressed through that guidance. Question put and agreed to. Resolved,
Committee rose at seventeen minutes to Ten o’clock. |
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