Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill

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Standing Committee G

Tuesday 18 January 2005

(Afternoon)

[David Taylor in the Chair]

Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Bill

Clause 2

Gating orders

Amendment proposed [this day]: No. 2, in clause 2, page 2, leave out lines 10 to 15 and insert—

'(3) A council may make such an order to restrict the public right of way where specific evidence exists that—

(a) illegal business activities have been conducted; or

(b) incidents of recorded crime have taken place; and'.—[Miss McIntosh]

2.30 pm

Question again proposed, That the amendment be made.

The Chairman: I remind the Committee that with this we are discussing the following amendments: No. 31, in clause 2, page 2, leave out lines 12 and 13.

No. 32, in clause 2, page 2, line 22, after 'locality', insert

', with particular regard to persons with a disability that limits their mobility.'.

No. 33, in clause 2, page 2, line 24, leave out

'a reasonably convenient alternative route'

and insert

'a route which provides a reasonably convenient alternative route to the public at the times when the gating order will be in force.'.

No. 46, in clause 2, page 2, line 24, at end insert—

'(d) the likely effect of making the order on statutory undertakers whose apparatus is located in on over or adjacent to the highway.'.

No. 34, in clause 2, page 2, line 30, at end insert—

'( ) any highway, any part of which crosses or abuts agricultural land;'.

No. 35, in clause 2, page 2, line 43, at end insert

'; or where the highway is the only or principal means of access to any premises or land used for business.'.

No. 47, in clause 2, page 2, line 43, at end insert

'or the exercise of any right by a statutory undertaker'.

No. 36, in clause 2, page 3, line 11, at end insert

', provided that any such order shall require that the barrier be maintained in an open position during any such times as the restriction is not in force.'.

No. 37, in clause 2, page 3, line 13, at end insert

', provided that the installation of such a barrier does not restrict access to the highway during such times as the restriction is not in force to the extent that any previous legitimate use of the highway is prevented.'.

No. 48, in clause 2, page 3, line 13, at end insert—

'(7A) A council installing, operating or maintaining any barrier authorised under subsection 6 shall ensure at all times access through the barrier for statutory undertakers.'.

No. 49, in clause 2, page 3, line 22, at end insert

'and statutory undertakers whose apparatus is located in on over or adjacent to the highway.'.

 
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No. 38, in clause 2, page 3, line 37, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.

No. 39, in clause 2, page 4, line 6, at end insert

'; or no longer complies in relation to it'.

No. 40, in clause 2, page 4, leave out lines 7 and 8.

No. 41, in clause 2, page 4, line 26, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.

No. 42, in clause 2, page 4, line 30, at end insert—

'(d) the posting and maintenance at entry points to any highway subject to a gating order of a notice stating the nature of the restriction of the right of way and the times when the restriction is in force.'.

No. 43, in clause 2, page 4, line 33, at end insert

'; excepting those persons who would be identified for the purposes of sections 129F(4) and 129F(6)(b) below.'.

No. 10, in clause 2, page 4, line 39, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.

No. 11, in clause 2, page 4, line 44, leave out 'may' and insert 'must'.

No. 12, in clause 2, page 5, line 2, at end insert

'; and they are satisfied that no variation under subsection (2) above would be expedient in all the circumstances for the purpose of reducing crime or anti-social behaviour.'.

No. 50, in clause 2, page 5, line 32, at end insert,

'''statutory undertaker'' means—

(1) the person by whom a relevant statutory right is exercisable (in the capacity in which it is exercisable by him); or

(b) a person having permission under section 109 of the New Roads and Street Works Act 1991 (c. 22) to execute road works, as the case may be references to an undertaker having apparatus in on over or adjacent to the highway, or to the undertaker to whom apparatus belongs, shall be construed accordingly.''.'.

No. 13, in clause 2, page 5, line 19, at end insert—

'(d) the periodic reviewing of gating orders with respect to their continuing expediency in all the circumstances for the purpose of reducing crime or anti-social behaviour; and with respect to the requirements of subsections (2) and (3) above.'.

No. 44, in clause 2, page 5, line 19, at end add—

'(d) the reviewing of gating orders following requests from a person who would be identified for the purposes of subsections (4) and (6)(b) above.'.

The Minister for Rural Affairs and Local Environmental Quality (Alun Michael): I made the point this morning that the Bill does what it can, but that it cannot solve all the problems of the universe, land ownership and a variety of other things, and that it is not a magic wand or a panacea. We want access to be limited when it causes problems of disorder and difficulty for local people, but not when such limits are not needed. Of course, that needs to be applied in the context of good co-operation, with the exchange of information between a variety of organisations, including the police and local authorities. Our discussions have made it clear that the instrument deals with some significant problems, but that how it is used and how local intelligence is developed are important.

Amendments Nos. 2 and 31 are both significant, as they probe the need for alley-gating. It is a lot simpler in practice than in theory. I can say that with a little authority, having dealt with some 20 applications under the requirements of the Countryside and Rights
 
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of Way Act 2000, which requires local authorities to make proposals to designate an area and to provide evidence that they need to do so.

When such evidence has been given, it has been fairly clear that people have gone to the trouble of talking to local residents, the police and crime reduction units, and have co-operated with the local authority, because a consensus view, based on experience, has been clearly enunciated in the proposal. I believe that the same will happen under the present requirements. The points made in debate about the need for consultation, for emergency services and others to be able to gain access whenever needed, and, generally, for community support were all well made.

Most points raised by the amendments could be dealt with more appropriately in regulations. Indeed, on one or two matters, when hon. Members referred to particular arrangements, they made exactly that point and were looking for an assurance that regulations would deal with such issues. Some of those are already covered in the legislation.

I underline the fact that alleys that are closed under the Bill's provisions remain a highway. As a result, a variety of provisions relating to a variety of organisations—I shall return to the point in a moment—will still apply as if the alley-gating had not taken place. There will be no need to recreate arrangements that are already firmly in place in the law, but I accept that that needs to be made absolutely clear to authorities when they are taking decisions on alley-gating and to the public, who should not be worried if they are given the appropriate reassurance.

The hon. Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh) asked about the possibility of vehicles being on an area that has been alley-gated. I confess that I am not totally sure of the circumstances she has in mind, but I would be happy if, outside the Committee, she gave specific examples of what concerns her. We could work them through as illustrations and I could respond in writing.

The essential point is that a gated alley remains a public highway. Local authorities will have a duty to remove obstructions, and any vehicles on it must be legal, just as they must be on the highway. Concerns of the sort raised by the hon. Lady are already dealt with adequately in legislation, but we are happy to respond to questions on best practice and making things clear. I reassure the Committee that the basic point is absolutely clear.

Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): What will happen if the alleyway in question is owned by a private landowner who cannot be found or traced, yet the alleyway needs to be gated? In my constituency, Mitcham and Morden, where alley-gating has been terrifically successful, often everyone along the terrace of properties agrees, apart from one householder, but that one objector prevents the gating from happening. How will the measure be implemented?

Alun Michael: My hon. Friend is right that we are trying to avoid that. If there is relevant evidence, common sense can be applied so that the gating is not
 
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obstructed unreasonably. The purpose of the measure is to ensure that obstructions—for example, whether ownership is known or there is doubt about it—do not stand in the way of dealing with the issues.

Where there is an unadopted alleyway, our advice is that the local authority should adopt a common-sense approach. If agreement can be reached between all the parties that the local authority can identify, the authority should gate an alleyway. Local authorities are asking us to remove the legal impediment to gating public highways; they believe that the impediment lies there. If an unadopted alleyway has been used as a through route for 20 years or more, it almost certainly qualifies as a public highway and will be covered by the clause.

So, I accept that, in some situations, legal advisers to local authorities may need to consider the case, but we believe that, following the changes that we are providing, the legislation will enable authorities to deal with the situation. If my hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) has a specific example in mind, I am happy to use it as a test case with our officials. I know that our officials look forward to the intellectual stimulus of engaging with specific examples.

One general point was made, which does not apply to any of the amendments specifically. It is the question whether the three elements in proposed new section 129A(3) must be satisfied. The answer is yes. We are talking about

''premises adjoining or adjacent to the highway''—

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Prepared 18 January 2005