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Mr. Evans: The Minister also mentioned advertising. Can he say more about the campaign to make people understand that dropping gum is not acceptable? He has talked about social and behavioural changes, which we would prefer, but if they do not happen, people will be prosecuted. Will the campaign concentrate on gum or will it include the other products to which the Bill refers?
Alun Michael: The campaign that we are considering concerns gum. Dealing with the consequences of the littering is difficult, which is why the working party has considered the matter more widely and looked at the underlying causes. There will be a specific campaign. I cannot say more than that now, because we are at the early stages of design, with a lot of discussions about what would be most effective, what would work and what would not, and how a campaign could fit with other forms of advertising. I undertake to write to members of the Committee when I can tell them where we are and how matters are being carried forward.
Mr. Evans: One suggestion is that manufacturers should state on the packaging that dropping gum is an offence punishable by a fine.
Alun Michael: As I have said, we have received a lot of co-operation from the industry. I believe that the group has discussed that idea, although I shall look at its latest recommendations to see whether that suggestion has been considered fully. The hon. Gentleman also asked whether other types of littering would be addressed in a campaign. The answer is yes. We are increasing the amount of money that ENCAMS receives, so that it can do more on littering.
We shall shortly publish the annual report of comparisons of how local authorities deal with a variety of environmental issues, including littering. For the first time we shall have a three-year comparison of whether trends are going up or down.
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That will contribute to the exchange of best practice among local authorities. Campaigning on gum is only part of a much bigger picture. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is also increasing its work on sustainable communities.
Sue Doughty: I shall make a few brief responses to the Minister's remarks on new clause 2. First, like everyone, I am absolutely delighted with the change in public attitude to dog fouling, but I have to say that when someone is out with their pooch, it is very visible when it is pooping. It is easy to see whose dog is doing it, and local disapprobation goes a long way to changing attitudes. However, if a small amount of gum is flicked onto the pavement, it is very difficult to know who did it, and when and how.
I am very supportive of what the Minister said about the need to understand the problem. I have to say that spending £60,000 on research to find out why people throw gum away seems fairly cheap compared to the clean-up costs. We have to change attitudes. I very much welcome what he says about continuing to work on it, but we will need to see what happens. We cannot have endless discussion groups, focus groups, and warm thoughts and hope that it goes away. We could have projects, with one generation of children learning that it is wrong to throw gum on the ground, but as we have seen with other awareness campaigns, all goes quiet in the next generation.
I welcome the fact that the Government are talking with Wrigley's about biodegradable and other sorts of gum in order to limit the damage. However, we confirm that we have tabled the new clause as a marker; I think that the House will want to return to the subject if we do not see any results, because what happens now is unacceptable. Given the difficulties of identifying those who throw the stuff away, I hope that the message will get across; but it needs conviction of the mind as well as conviction of those who carry out the act.
Will the Minister say how long he will let it run before he reviews the effectiveness of the message, and what he has in mind to ensure that not only one generation of people receives it ? We need ongoing awareness.
Alun Michael: We want active engagement. We need to see what can be done in this year's campaign, take stock and then see what can be done in subsequent years. I believe that we have the co-operation of manufacturers and retailers. It was nice and easy in the first instance to engage them, because they hoped that the problem would go away. However, they are now fully engaged. I certainly agree with the warning given by the hon. Member for Guildford that if we are not successful or if that success does not continue, we should return to the matter with further legislation. However, I hope that we shall see progress and success.
Miss McIntosh: I heard what the Minister said about the difference between littering and staining. The difficulty is that chewing gum stains almost immediately it becomes embedded in the pavement—
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one person drops it, another person stands on it, and already it has stained the pavement. The regulatory impact assessment states on page 40 that
''The measure does not widen the scope of the duty under section 89 of the Environment Protection Act 1990 to keep land free of litter and refuse, to include chewing gum staining.''
I do not see how the clause addresses the problem of chewing gum.
Alun Michael: Very simply, littering with chewing gum leads to staining. If we tackle the littering, we have a chance of avoiding the staining. If we do not tackle the littering, the staining will continue to increase. Dealing with the staining once it is there is a different matter, and is nothing to do with the Bill.
Miss McIntosh: That immediately leads me to say that the Government are presumably relying on an environmental officer, perhaps from Westminster city council, or a community police officer to catch
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someone in the act of dropping the gum. That would be nigh on impossible in Oxford street because of the volume of people.
Alun Michael: With respect, we have a problem with littering because a lot of it is not spotted, but a lot of it is. The success of litter wardens, for instance, is a lesson from which we have learned. Local authorities are enthusiastic and keen to pursue the policy, and it is popular with the public. Littering with chewing gum is about the act of its being dropped.
Miss McIntosh: I have no argument—
The Chairman: Order. I remind the Committee that we resume at 2.30 pm in this Room, and that we will be sitting in this Room until the end of our proceedings.
It being twenty-five minutes past Eleven o'clock, The Chairman adjourned the Committee without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
Adjourned till this day at half-past Two o'clock.
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