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97

 
 

House of Commons

 
 

Thursday 3rd November 2005

 

Committee of the Whole House

 

Proceedings

 

Terrorism Bill


 

[second DAY]


 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Not selected  82

 

Clause  21,  page  19,  leave out lines 7 to 25 and insert—

 

‘(5A)    

The cases in which an organisation promotes or encourages terrorism for the

 

purposes of subsection (5)(c) include any case in which a person whilst acting in

 

the capacity of an officer of that organisation commits an offence under sections

 

1 or 2 of the Terrorism Act 2005.’.

 

Mr William Cash

 

Not selected  53

 

Page  19,  line  4,  leave out Clause 21.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clause 22 Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

Withdrawn  87

 

Clause  5,  page  7,  line  22,  after ‘any’, insert ‘relevant’.


 
 

Committee of the whole House Proceedings: 3rd November 2005  

98

 

Terrorism Bill, continued

 
 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

Not called  88

 

Clause  5,  page  7,  line  27,  at end insert—

 

‘( )    

In this section “relevant conduct” means conduct of a description specified in an

 

order made by statutory instrument by the Secretary of State.

 

( )    

A statutory instrument containing an order made by the Secretary of State under

 

this section may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before,

 

and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.’.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 


 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Withdrawn  57

 

Clause  6,  page  7,  line  32,  leave out ‘or suspects’.

 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

Not called  89

 

Clause  6,  page  7,  line  32,  after ‘or’, insert ‘reasonably’.

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Negatived on division  58

 

Clause  6,  page  8,  line  26,  at end add—

 

‘(4A)    

It shall be a defence to an offence under section 6 (1), for the defendant to show

 

that he reported any suspicion to the police or in the case of an employee to his

 

employer or other person in authority over him.’.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clause 7 Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

Not called  42

 

Clause  8,  page  10,  line  13,  at end add—


 
 

Committee of the whole House Proceedings: 3rd November 2005  

99

 

Terrorism Bill, continued

 
 

‘(7)    

It shall be a defence to a charge brought under this section for an accused person

 

to show—

 

(a)    

that he had no reasonable grounds for believing that the place was a place

 

used for terrorist training; or

 

(b)    

that the accused was in the place used for terrorist training for legitimate

 

research purposes.’.

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Negatived on division  59

 

Clause  8,  page  10,  line  14,  at end add—

 

(7)    

It shall be a defence to an offence under this section for a defendant to show on

 

the balance of probabilities that his attendance at any place used for terrorist

 

training was—

 

(a)    

for the purpose of preventing the instruction or training taking place; or

 

(b)    

for the purpose of gathering information about the instruction or training;

 

or

 

(c)    

involuntary.

 

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

 

Angus Robertson

 

Mr Alex Salmond

 

Hywel Williams

 

Adam Price

 

Stewart Hosie

 

Not selected  64

 

Page  9,  line  20,  leave out Clause 8.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clauses 9 to 11 Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Elfyn Llwyd

 

Angus Robertson

 

Mr Alex Salmond

 

Hywel Williams

 

Adam Price

 

Stewart Hosie

 

Not selected  65

 

Clause  12,  page  12,  line  28,  at end insert—

 

‘(2A)    

The courts shall not regard or refer to an offence of trespass under section 128(1)

 

of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 as a terrorist offence unless

 

they are satisfied that the offence is also an offence under section 5 of this Act.’.

 

Mr Secretary Clarke

 

Agreed to  100

 

Clause  12,  page  12,  line  34,  at beginning insert ‘so much of’.


 
 

Committee of the whole House Proceedings: 3rd November 2005  

100

 

Terrorism Bill, continued

 
 

Mr Secretary Clarke

 

Agreed to  101

 

Clause  12,  page  12,  line  36,  leave out from ‘force’ to end of line 42 and insert ‘as

 

lies within the outer perimeter of the protection provided for those premises; and

 

(b)    

so much of any other premises of which premises falling within

 

paragraph (a) form a part as lies within that outer perimeter.’.

 

Mr Secretary Clarke

 

Agreed to  102

 

Clause  12,  page  13,  line  11,  at beginning insert ‘so much of’.

 

Mr Secretary Clarke

 

Agreed to  103

 

Clause  12,  page  13,  line  13,  leave out from ‘force’ to end of line 19 and insert ‘as

 

lies within the outer perimeter of the protection provided for those premises; and

 

(b)    

so much of any other premises of which premises falling within

 

paragraph (a) form a part as lies within that outer perimeter.’.

 

Clause, as amended, Agreed to.

 

Clauses 13 to 16 Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Negatived on division  90

 

Clause  17,  page  16,  line  3,  leave out ‘and’.

 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Not called  91

 

Clause  17,  page  16,  line  5,  at end insert ‘and

 

(c)    

the action involves harm or the threat of harm to a national of the United

 

Kingdom.’.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 



 
 

Committee of the whole House Proceedings: 3rd November 2005  

101

 

Terrorism Bill, continued

 
 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Withdrawn  104

 

Clause  18,  page  16,  line  36,  leave out from ‘of’ to end of line 37.

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Not called  105

 

Clause  18,  page  17,  line  1,  leave out from ‘of’ to ‘a’ in line 2.

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Not selected  60

 

Page  16,  line  34,  leave out Clause 18.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clause 19 Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Richard Burden

 

John Austin

 

Withdrawn  33

 

Clause  20,  page  17,  leave out lines 31 to 33.

 

Mr John Denham

 

Helen Goodman

 

Richard Burden

 

Jon Trickett

 

Steve McCabe

 

Tony Lloyd

 

Not called  69

 

Clause  20,  page  17,  line  33,  at end add ‘but in respect of Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4 and 17

 

such an action includes any action that is intended to cause death or serious bodily harm

 

to civilians or non-combatants, when the purpose of such act, by its nature or context, is

 

to intimidate the population, or to compel a government or an international organisation

 

to do or to abstain from doing any act.’.

 

Mr William Cash

 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

David Davis

 

Not called  52

 

Clause  20,  page  17,  leave out lines 38 and 39.


 
 

Committee of the whole House Proceedings: 3rd November 2005  

102

 

Terrorism Bill, continued

 
 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Schedule 1 Agreed to.

 


 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Not called  106

 

Clause  25,  page  25,  line  22,  leave out ‘or a District Judge (Magistrates’ Courts)’.

 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Not called  107

 

Clause  25,  page  25,  line  29,  leave out ‘or a District Judge (Magistrates’ Courts)’.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clauses 26 and 27 Agreed to.

 

Schedule 2 Agreed to.

 

Clauses 28 and 29 Agreed to.

 


 

David Davis

 

Mr Dominic Grieve

 

Patrick Mercer

 

Mr Edward Garnier

 

Not called  108

 

Clause  30,  page  29,  line  15,  at end insert ‘and the Secretary of State shall

 

immediately provide an endorsement in writing of the decision to issue’.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

Dr Evan Harris

 

Not called  83

 

Clause  31,  page  31,  line  19,  at end insert—

 

‘(8)    

Sections 17 and 18 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 shall

 

cease to have effect.’.


 
 

Committee of the whole House Proceedings: 3rd November 2005  

103

 

Terrorism Bill, continued

 
 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clause 32 Agreed to.

 


 

Mr Robert Marshall-Andrews

 

Alan Simpson

 

Jeremy Corbyn

 

Ms Diane Abbott

 

Mrs Linda Riordan

 

John McDonnell

 

Not called  61

 

Clause  33,  page  32,  line  19,  at end add ‘save and except where such government or

 

international government organisation has, at the time of such use or threat, directly or

 

indirectly been persistently responsible for acts that are in breach of the Universal

 

Declaration of Human Rights.’.

 

Mr Douglas Hogg

 

Not called  75

 

Clause  33,  page  32,  line  19,  at end insert—

 

‘( )    

for the purposes of this Act actions to be done outside the United Kingdom not

 

involving the citizens of the United Kingdom or their property or the property of

 

the government of the United Kingdom or of corporations registered in the United

 

Kingdom or of businesses having an office in the United Kingdom and but for this

 

subsection to be treated as acts of terrorism or Convention offences shall only be

 

so treated if such actions are done with the intent of causing death or injury to

 

persons who are not members of the armed or the security forces of the country

 

where the acts are to be committed or are otherwise engaged in the administration

 

of that country’.

 

Mr Mark Oaten

 

Mr Alistair Carmichael

 

Mr David Heath

 

Lynne Featherstone

 

Not called  84

 

Clause  33,  page  32,  line  19,  at end insert—

 

‘( )    

In section 1(2)(b) of the Terrorism Act 2000, leave out “serious damage to

 

property” and insert “extensive destruction to property likely to endanger human

 

life or result in major economic loss.”.’.

 

Clause Agreed to.

 

Clauses 34 to 36 Agreed to.

 

Schedule 3 Agreed to.

 

Clauses 37 and 38 Agreed to.

 



 
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