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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr. Ben Bradshaw): This has been an excellent debate. I cannot recall a debate on an issue of such importance that has commanded such consensus across the House. We heard good contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Bury, North (Mr. Chaytor) and for Edinburgh, North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz)—perhaps his speech was not so consensual as others, but he can claim as an excuse provocation by the Liberal Democrats in Edinburgh about the congestion charge there.

We heard a good contribution from the hon. Member for Edinburgh, West (John Barrett), who should be commended for his action in getting rid of his 4x4 vehicle. He might like to know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs often refers to me, only half in jest, as a one-man Government carbon-offsetting scheme, because I gave up my car 12 years ago and now rely mainly on my bicycle.

There was a good contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Copeland (Mr. Reed), who set an example to the House in his brevity. I am sure that the debate will continue and he may wish to make a longer speech in future on the issue that he mentioned. We also heard a good contribution from the hon. Member for Wantage (Mr. Vaizey).

It is invidious to single out a Member for praise in such debates, and I do so at the risk of ruining what otherwise I suspect would be a promising career, but the contribution from the hon. Member for Ruislip-
29 Jun 2005 : Column 1404
Northwood (Mr. Hurd) was particularly impressive. It was most refreshing to hear a Conservative Member say that the European Union could play a positive leadership role in a major policy issue. [Interruption.] I apologise to the hon. Gentleman if that has damaged him, but it was not meant in that spirit.

Let me bring the House back to the focus of the debate: next week's very important summit at Gleneagles. The House recognises that that meeting in itself has stimulated debate and provided a boost to the vital work that is happening at regional, national and international levels. Indeed, the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) acknowledged that in what he said about the real progress that is being made at state level in the United States, partly as a result of the British Government giving the issue such a high profile.

We always knew that addressing climate change during our G8 presidency would be tough. There are real differences of opinion about the best way to respond to the challenge. That is why the summit is so important and shows how the G8 functions best when taking on the big issues of the day and reaching out to other key nations.

Our aims for the summit are threefold: first, to secure agreement about the importance of the issue and the need to cut greenhouse gas emissions and to take urgent action; secondly, to find practical ways to speed up the development and deployment of new technologies, both in the G8 and in developing countries, using a comprehensive Gleneagles plan of action, covering energy efficiency, power generation, research and development, investment and financing, as well as adaptation to climate change; and thirdly, to reach an agreement to continue dialogue on climate change, clean energy and sustainable development that will complement the existing UN process.

There has been much debate this afternoon about the position of the United States and whether we should try to persuade the US to sign up to the Kyoto protocol. That has never been our aim. We remain committed to the Kyoto protocol, as do the other signatories. The US, at national level, takes a different line—that is a matter of fact—but there are significant areas of common ground. Just because we have different views on the Kyoto protocol, it does not mean that the US cannot work with Europe and the emerging economies on measures to tackle climate change. The G8 summit provides an opportunity to discuss with the US and those emerging economies what we can do to bring together energy, environment and development policies to create the political will necessary to succeed.

On this issue, some of the consensus that built up in the rest of the debate was challenged. Although stressing the importance, as he saw it, of getting the United States on board for an agreement, the hon. Member for Lewes seemed to suggest that he would rather have a better agreement without the US than a weak one with it. However, he acknowledged that we can continue to do the good work that we have been doing on the basis of a coalition of the willing. We will continue to do that.

The right hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin) used his vivid analogy of pushing a heavy boulder up a steep slope to suggest that it was important that Gleneagles results in our going an inch up the slope. He appeared to say that he was worried that we were being
29 Jun 2005 : Column 1405
too ambitious. I do not accept that we are being too ambitious and therefore face the risk of failing, which would be seen as a defeat. We have charted a wise and careful course and, by and large in the debate, hon. Members resisted the temptation, based on misleading press reports that appeared a few days ago, to prejudge what is likely to be achieved at Gleneagles.

There was also not the degree of consensus that I would have liked on what the UK Government have achieved in terms of showing the leadership at home that we can deploy internationally. It is important to remind the House that, as my hon. Friend the Minister for Climate Change and the Environment said in his opening remarks, we are the only country apart from Sweden that is on course to meet our Kyoto obligations—and not just to meet them, but to exceed them. We are not on course to meet our own much more ambitious domestic targets for CO 2 emissions, but we are reviewing our climate change programme with the specific aim of getting back on track to meet those targets. As my hon. Friend also pointed out, Labour was the only political party at the last general election to have a specific pledge in our manifesto to that 20 per cent. cut by 2020.

The right hon. Member for West Dorset made an interesting contribution to the debate about environmental gain and economic growth. This is an important debate to develop further even though we do not have the time to do so now. I urge him to look at the speech made by the hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood, who said that he wished that we would talk more about opportunities and not costs. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury, North pointed out, this country has achieved cuts in our emissions while having robust economic growth, and we are now beginning to achieve a similar situation on waste. We are cutting waste production while growing our economy. It is no accident that the two countries that have done best on climate change—Sweden and the United Kingdom—have strong records on economic growth. I do not think that environmental gain and economic growth are incompatible; the opposite is true. It is only through sustainable development that we will protect the environment and achieve the sustainable economic growth that we all want.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bury, North made several constructive suggestions about potential fiscal incentives. Many of us on both sides of the House agree that more fiscal incentives have a positive role to play in helping us to get our own and international targets back on track.

Hon. Members understandably concentrated on Gleneagles but, as several pointed out, this issue is not just about the G8. It is also about the EU, and its leaders are already showing leadership and setting objectives based on the need to limit temperature increases to 2° C. We want to lead the international debate. We also recognise that the EU cannot do it alone. The international effort to tackle climate change will not succeed unless we get the US and the emerging economies talking. That is why we want Gleneagles to be the start of a new dialogue complementary to the UN process.
29 Jun 2005 : Column 1406

I regret the fact that in spite of the consensual nature of this debate, it looks as though the House is going to divide on the Liberal Democrat motion—

Richard Younger-Ross (Teignbridge) (LD) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.

Question, That the Question be now put, put and agreed to.

Question put accordingly, That the original words stand part of the Question:—

The House divided: Ayes 220, Noes 313.

Division No. 24
[6.59 pm


Afriyie, Adam
Amess, Mr. David
Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Bacon, Mr. Richard
Baker, Norman
Baldry, Tony
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr. John
Barrett, John
Beith, rh Mr. Alan
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Benyon, Mr. Richard
Bercow, John
Beresford, Sir Paul
Binley, Mr. Brian
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Bone, Mr. Peter
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Bottomley, Peter
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brake, Tom
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Browning, Angela
Bruce, Malcolm
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Butterfill, Sir John
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Cameron, Mr. David
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Conway, Derek
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Crabb, Mr. Stephen
Curry, rh Mr. David
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh David (Haltemprice and Howden)
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Dorries, Mrs. Nadine
Duddridge, James
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Mr. Michael
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mr. Mark
Forth, rh Mr. Eric
Fox, Dr. Liam
Francois, Mr. Mark
Fraser, Mr. Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Gidley, Sandra
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Goldsworthy, Julia
Goodman, Mr. Paul
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gove, Michael
Gray, Mr. James
Grayling, Chris
Green, Damian
Greenway, Mr. John
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Harper, Mr. Mark
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Hemming, John
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, Mr. Nick
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Holmes, Paul
Horam, Mr. John
Horwood, Mr. Martin
Howarth, David
Howarth, Mr. Gerald
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunt, Mr. Jeremy
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jackson, Mr. Stewart
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Kawczynski, Daniel
Keetch, Mr. Paul
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Kramer, Susan
Laing, Mrs. Eleanor
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Laws, Mr. David
Leech, Mr. John
Letwin, rh Mr. Oliver
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr. Ian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Main, Anne
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Maples, Mr. John
Mates, rh Mr. Michael
Maude, rh Mr. Francis
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, Mr. Patrick
Mercer, Patrick
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Moore, Mr. Michael
Moss, Mr. Malcolm
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, David
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
Oaten, Mr. Mark
Osborne, Mr. George
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, Mr. James
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Pickles, Mr. Eric
Price, Adam
Prisk, Mr. Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Rogerson, Mr. Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rowen, Paul
Ruffley, Mr. David
Russell, Bob
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Scott, Mr. Lee
Shapps, Grant
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs. Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spink, Bob
Spring, Mr. Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Streeter, Mr. Gary
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Tredinnick, David
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Viggers, Peter
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Waterson, Mr. Nigel
Watkinson, Angela
Webb, Steve
Weir, Mr. Mike
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, Mr. David
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mark
Williams, Mr. Roger
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Wishart, Pete
Wright, Jeremy
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard

Tellers for the Ayes:

Sir Robert Smith and
Danny Alexander


Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, rh Mr. Bob
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Allen, Mr. Graham
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Balls, Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barlow, Ms Celia
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Begg, Miss Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blears, rh Hazel
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunkett, rh Mr. David
Borrow, Mr. David S.
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Browne, rh Mr. Des
Bryant, Chris
Burden, Richard
Butler, Ms Dawn
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Gregory
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clark, Ms Katy
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cook, Frank
Cook, rh Mr. Robin
Cooper, Rosie
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Mr. Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Fisher, Mark
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gilroy, Linda
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hillier, Meg
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hood, Mr. Jimmy
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, Mr. George
Howells, Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Jenkins, Mr. Brian
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Ms Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Kennedy, rh Jane
Khabra, Mr. Piara S.
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Lammy, Mr. David
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
MacDougall, Mr. John
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall, Mr. David
Marshall-Andrews, Mr. Robert
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, Dr. Alasdair
McDonnell, John
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McFall, rh Mr. John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKechin, Ann
McKenna, Rosemary
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Meale, Mr. Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh Mr. David
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Moran, Margaret
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Morley, Mr. Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Rev. Ian
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, James
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Rooney, Mr. Terry
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Ryan, Joan
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Seabeck, Alison
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Singh, Mr. Marsha
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andrew
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, Angela E. (Basildon)
Smith, Geraldine
Smith, rh Jacqui
Smith, John
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thornberry, Ms Emily
Timms, Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Vaz, Keith
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, rh Mr. Alan
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, Mr. Michael
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek

Tellers for the Noes:

Mr. Tom Watson and
Claire Ward

Question accordingly negatived.

29 Jun 2005 : Column 1410

Question, That the proposed words be there added, put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments), and agreed to.

Mr. Deputy Speaker forthwith declared the main Question, as amended, to be agreed to.


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