Previous SectionIndexHome Page

Mrs. Gillan : I thank the Minister for his kind remarks about official Opposition Front Benchers and agree that we have had a measured and constructive discussion.
16 Nov 2005 : Column 1067
Because I am at the Dispatch Box this evening on Third Reading, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr. Malins), who has done sterling work on this Bill. The Government's timetabling placed him in some difficulty because he was working on the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 at the same time.

We have had a reasonable examination of the Bill. As the Minister knows, there is much that Conservative Members agree with. I was happy with the way in which the Government introduced the late clauses because of the need to tidy up some of the provisions relating to terrorism. I thank the Minister for making his officials available to brief me and my Front-Bench colleagues, because that enabled us to approach the amendments in a slightly different fashion from what would have been the case had we been unsighted.

The Bill moves this whole area forward. It includes some good measures on fingerprinting, passenger and   crew information, information sharing, searches, and the deprivation of citizenship and right of abode, which the Government have understandably felt it necessary to propose in response to the current situation.

However, the Minister always has to spoil things a little by having a political dig at the Conservatives. He should be more magnanimous in victory; after all, his party won the election. I will not take any lessons from him or hang my head in shame, because whatever an individual may have said in the heat of an election, it does not represent my party's views. He does a disservice to the whole business of politics by raising that here.

More refinements may be made to the Bill in another place, perhaps in the light of current events or the way in which we have conducted ourselves here. I see that the Minister is nodding. I hope that the pattern of Conservative Members' voting indicates to another place those areas where we have concerns. If truth be told, the Minister would also have some concerns were he not tied by his office.

The current drafting of the provisions on appeals is a muddle, and that will cost us in terms of our reputation at home and abroad. There is probably good reason to retain in-country rights of appeal in some cases, where people will be in the country having entered legally with leave. The disruption if they are forced to leave the UK will be sufficiently enormous not only to create administrative chaos, but potentially to give rise to successful human rights applications in the courts and compensation claims. The effects on our universities and higher education institutions have been laid out pretty well in Committee and on Report.

The Minister needs to deal with the situation whereby refugees may be left in limbo. The Refugee Council has said:

That reflects its view of some of the Bill's other provisions. The Government say that they wish to have a one-stop appeals system, but I should have thought that there were alternative ways of achieving that. I hope that the other place will examine that carefully, because improvements could be made.
16 Nov 2005 : Column 1068

The quality of the decision making on entry clearance appeals has been identified as being poor, even in the report by the Constitutional Affairs Committee from which I quoted earlier. We are pleased that there is scope for review and monitoring. However, as additional efforts to improve quality control do not substitute for what is already in place, particularly for appeals, we hope that that will be examined in another place.

As regards employment, there are real risks that employers, not least because of the heavy burden of checking placed upon them, will be reluctant to employ people who are, or whom they think might be, subject to immigration control. That could result in an increase of discrimination in employment. The proposed code of practice certainly holds no magic answer to this problem.

The ongoing obligation on employers to check the immigration status of employees will cause difficulties in practice. For example, at the time when a person's leave is due to run out, their documents are usually with the Home Office. There has been criticism from the Immigration Advisory Service and even from the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants, whose chief executive has said that part of the Bill is asking employers to do the Home Office's dirty work, and that people migrate here because there is work for them to do. There are warnings there, as well as in the views of the CBI and the National Farmers Union about the employment of agricultural workers.

I was pleased that the Minister accepted some of our suggestions, particularly the amendment relating to the period of 28 days. We thank him for looking with favour on that. On the powers of search and arrest, it is extremely risky to give private contractors the right to detain. The Government say that the contractors will only be searching lorries, but what would happen if they found someone? I am still worried about the scrutiny, accountability and oversight of private contractors, on whom I am actually very keen. Concerns have also been expressed in that regard about the potential for ill-treatment during detention and escort, and those concerns must be dealt with at some stage. There is certainly no case for giving powers to detain, arrest or search to anyone other than professionals. The Minister must ensure that the people who are employed in this area are trained, skilled and accountable. Perhaps that issue will be considered in another place.

I would like to acknowledge the people who have briefed us on these issues. There have not been as many lawyers, officials and rafts of people coming to our door to brief us as the Government have had, but we have been very impressed by the calibre of the organisations that have sought to have their views aired. I hope that they will consider that we have done justice to their views, even though in some cases we do not entirely agree with them.

I also want to acknowledge the work of all members of the Committee. As I said at the end of the Committee stage, the Bill will make our borders safer and make our country a better place for people to come and live in and to visit. We hope that the legislation, in whatever form it finally appears, will help the people who defend our country to do a better job and to make it a place that provides us with a safe and sure environment.

The Bill will go to the other place, where I hope it will be refined in some of the ways that I have outlined today. However, in the light of the way in which we have
16 Nov 2005 : Column 1069
conducted the proceedings on the scrutiny of the Bill, I would like to tell the Minister that, should a vote be called on Third Reading tonight, I shall ask my hon. Friends who are present in the House to join the Government in the Lobby, to ensure that both parties stand four-square against terrorism. The message must go out clearly from the House that, regardless of rhetoric and political differences, when it comes to the safety and security of our citizens the Conservative party will stand behind the Government in this instance.

6.59 pm

Mr. Gerrard: I see that we have about a minute left, so it will be difficult to make much of a contribution. I want to make the point that, for some of us, there are still areas of serious concern in the Bill, especially on appeal rights. I know that a lot of what has to be done on appeal rights will depend on secondary legislation, and I say to the Minister that I hope that he talks to Members of the House before that legislation is introduced so that we are clear about where we can and cannot maintain some appeal rights.

I am grateful for what the Minister said about unaccompanied minors, and I hope that we can make more progress on that. Will he make absolutely sure that there is a clear relationship between what the House finally agrees on the Terrorism Bill—

Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—

The House divided: Ayes 330, Noes 58.

Division No. 102
[7 pm


Afriyie, Adam
Ainger, Nick
Allen, Mr. Graham
Amess, Mr. David
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Armstrong, rh Hilary
Atkins, Charlotte
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Baird, Vera
Baldry, Tony
Balls, Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Begg, Miss Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benton, Mr. Joe
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blackman-Woods, Dr. Roberta
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Bone, Mr. Peter
Bradshaw, Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brokenshire, James
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Brown, Mr. Russell
Browne, rh Mr. Des
Bryant, Chris
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byers, rh Mr. Stephen
Byrne, Mr. Liam
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Chaytor, Mr. David
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clark, Ms Katy
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Kenneth
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cook, Frank
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, Yvette
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs. Claire
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Denham, rh Mr. John
Devine, Mr. Jim
Dhanda, Mr. Parmjit
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Donaldson, Mr. Jeffrey M.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Duddridge, James
Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Ellwood, Mr. Tobias
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Evans, Mr. Nigel
Field, rh Mr. Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Mr. Robert
Flint, Caroline
Follett, Barbara
Forth, rh Mr. Eric
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Francois, Mr. Mark
Gapes, Mike
George, rh Mr. Bruce
Gibson, Dr. Ian
Gillan, Mrs. Cheryl
Godsiff, Mr. Roger
Goggins, Paul
Goodman, Helen
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Gove, Michael
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Griffith, Nia
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Gwynne, Andrew
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hall, Patrick
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hamilton, Mr. Fabian
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hanson, Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harper, Mr. Mark
Harris, Mr. Tom
Hayes, Mr. John
Healey, John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hendry, Charles
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Herbert, Nick
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, rh Ms Patricia
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hollobone, Mr. Philip
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hughes, rh Beverley
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Joyce, Mr. Eric
Kawczynski, Daniel
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Kennedy, rh Jane
Khan, Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Kilfoyle, Mr. Peter
Knight, Jim
Kumar, Dr. Ashok
Lancaster, Mr. Mark
Law, Peter
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Love, Mr. Andrew
Luff, Peter
MacDougall, Mr. John
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr. Khalid
Malik, Mr. Shahid
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Mallaber, Judy
Mann, John
Marris, Rob
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Marshall, Mr. David
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCrea, Dr. William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFadden, Mr. Pat
McFall, rh Mr. John
McGovern, Mr. Jim
McGuire, Mrs. Anne
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Rosemary
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
McNulty, Mr. Tony
Meacher, rh Mr. Michael
Meale, Mr. Alan
Merron, Gillian
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, Edward
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Moffat, Anne
Moffatt, Laura
Mole, Chris
Moon, Mrs. Madeleine
Moran, Margaret
Morden, Jessica
Morgan, Julie
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, Mr. George
Mullin, Mr. Chris
Mundell, David
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, Mr. Jim
Murphy, rh Mr. Paul
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mr. Mike
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Ottaway, Richard
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, James
Randall, Mr. John
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Riordan, Mrs. Linda
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, John
Robertson, Mr. Laurence
Robinson, Mrs. Iris
Robinson, Mr. Peter
Roy, Mr. Frank
Ruane, Chris
Ruffley, Mr. David
Russell, Christine
Ryan, Joan
Salter, Martin
Scott, Mr. Lee
Seabeck, Alison
Shapps, Grant
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, David
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andrew
Smith, rh Mr. Andrew
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, rh Jacqui
Snelgrove, Anne
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Southworth, Helen
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Steen, Mr. Anthony
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Syms, Mr. Robert
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Ms Dari
Taylor, David
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, Mr. Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Vaz, Keith
Viggers, Peter
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Vis, Dr. Rudi
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Watkinson, Angela
Watson, Mr. Tom
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Wicks, Malcolm
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, Ann
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr. Ian Cawsey and
Tony Cunningham


Alexander, Danny
Beith, rh Mr. Alan
Brake, Tom
Breed, Mr. Colin
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr. Jeremy
Burt, Lorely
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Clegg, Mr. Nick
Davey, Mr. Edward
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Foster, Mr. Don
Galloway, Mr. George
George, Andrew
Gidley, Sandra
Goldsworthy, Julia
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Harris, Dr. Evan
Harvey, Nick
Hemming, John
Holmes, Paul
Horwood, Martin
Howarth, David
Hughes, Simon
Huhne, Chris
Hunter, Mark
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Kramer, Susan
Lamb, Norman
Laws, Mr. David
Leech, Mr. John
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
MacNeil, Mr. Angus
Moore, Mr. Michael
Oaten, Mr. Mark
Öpik, Lembit
Price, Adam
Pugh, Dr. John
Reid, Mr. Alan
Robertson, Angus
Rogerson, Mr. Dan
Rowen, Paul
Sanders, Mr. Adrian
Smith, Sir Robert
Stunell, Andrew
Swinson, Jo
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Webb, Steve
Weir, Mr. Mike
Williams, Hywel
Williams, Mark
Williams, Stephen
Willis, Mr. Phil
Wishart, Pete

Tellers for the Noes:

Bob Russell and
Richard Younger-Ross

Question accordingly agreed to.

16 Nov 2005 : Column 1072

Bill read the Third time, and passed.

Next Section IndexHome Page